SIGHTING IN

[flashpoint]

OK. Here's my problem. I am trying to sight-in my muzzleloader. I have a .45 caliber T/C Seneca. I am shooting 50 grains Goex FF powder with a patched round ball. The target is a 100 yard small bore target with a bulls eye the size of a 50 cent piece. The target itself is measures 14" x 18" . For a lube I used Mink oil on a pillow ticking patch. I shot at 13 yards and it was pretty much in or very close to the bull. At 25 yards the shots were 1" to the right side and 1" low of the bull.
At 50 yards 2 shots were about 4.5 inches low of the bull. I then adjusted the elevation and the next shot hit half the bull and the second shot was only 1/4" below the bull. Now here's the kicker. I moved the target out to 75 yards and centered it on an 18" x 20" board. I shot twice. Both balls completely missed the 18X20" board. What??????????? So does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do next or do I have a gun that will only shoot 50 yards accurately and that's it??
Do you think the balls went under? If so, if I raise the elevation wouldn't that mess up the 50 yard grouping? Thank you.

 

[elkeater]

I would adjust the sights to higher poi and use a target with a 2" diameter red bull or larger.

 

[MattRaymond]

Adjust the sights to hit a little high at 50 yards and they should be on paper at 75. 50 grains in a .45 will have the ball dropping significantly past 50 yards. I usually shot 60-70 grains of 3f in my .45 and it shot much flatter.

 

[JonE]

First off, I would get you one of those deer target cardboard cutouts, you are not hunting paper targets in the woods, and need to focus on what you are hunting. Now you have a sight picture of what you're going to hunt.... now sight in.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Using a paper target is fine, you just need to know the animal's anatomy. You wouldn't believe how many don't have a clue how to put an animal down cleanly with one shot. We all need to consider this - the faster the better for your piece of mind and less suffering for the animal.

Those animal targets find better use for the stick shooters who usually know the animal anatomy at a closer range.

A piece of card board with a plain large "X: works fine for a cheap target (always aim for the center of the "X".

 

[Hanshi]

I agree with MattRaymond's advice. That's what I've done with my .45 and also my .50.

 

[flashpoint]

Thank you everyone for the good advice. Am going to adjust the sights to a little higher at 50 yards with the 50 grains and then see what 60 or 70 grains of powder will do. Thanks again.

 

[Stubert]

If you bump up to 70 grains, you might be on target without any more sight adjustments. In my Pedersoli 45 flinter, I use a .433 ball, .010 patch and 70 grains 3f.

 

[Old and grumpy]

If you bump up to 70 grains, you might be on target without any more sight adjustments. In my Pedersoli 45 flinter, I use a .433 ball, .010 patch and 70 grains 3f.

I have a Seneca but don't remember, are you SURE the load you are advocating is Safe in a Seneca

 

[flashpoint]

Hey Grumpy.
According to the T/C Manuel for Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms (still available from T/C), the suggested loads for a .45 caliber rifle (Cherokee & Seneca) shooting Black Powder and Round Ball Loads are as follows:
.440 Diameter Lead Ball Weight
(127 Grain Lead Ball)
Patches Lubricated with Bore Butter
#11 Percussion Cap
28" Barrel
Black Powder Charges of 50, 60, 70, 80, or 90 grains of FFG. may be used. However,
90 Grains is the MAXIMUM LOAD and should never be exceeded.
According to their testing, the most accurate load will be found approximately in the middle.
The above information may be found on page 73 of the T/C manual.

 

[Hanshi]

Although certainly not a Cherokee or Seneca, I find the best loads to be 60 to 70 grains of 3F. The rifle is a .45 X 36" X 13/16" flintlock. The percussion .45 X 25" X 15/16" does its work with 60 grains of 3F. Another percussion .45 X 33" X 15/16" has always done well with 60 grains of 3F and occasionally enjoying 70 grains. Admittedly, I did kill lots of deer with the flintlock and 80 grains of 3F. That load would really shoot, too. I don't load that heavily any longer. I found the current loads shoot as well and, of course, take less powder.

 

[user 23626]

As stated I have little experience with BP and enjoy gleaning mucho info from all of you! My H&A 45 Underhammer likes 80 gr 3F, shoots flat and the ball recovered from two Pronghorns, on the far side just under the hide, expanded perfectly to about the size of a dime with very little blood shot meat. Couldn't ask for more! Out Here

 

[Mad Irish Jack ODonnell]

My practice targets, with friend, was mad from a large cardboard box (Like a refrigerator box). You buy 1 archery deer cardboard target with the heart, lung and kidney area drawn in. We cut out the heart, liver, kidney area and now have our pattern. Lay it on the cardboard you've saved, now you shoot the cut out vitals area with spray paint ( white or bright). shot the spray around the edge of the pattern. Nor cut the deer target at the outer edge. You now have a DEER shape with it's vitals highly visible. If you have access to wooded areas you can shoot in without worry using the woods as your backstop, you can train in addition to target shooting. You can use three or more targets. One guy places them in the woods. and follows you while you hunt and shoot the target, Use a stop watch on sometimes like 5 seconds from spot to shot or it counts as amiss. this helps prepare for quick reaction hunts. We's do this with high power and ML's. We started in August and when a couple week day evening or added a weekend. We always shot with 2 to 4 guys. 1st up changed with order each time.

 

[Mad Irish Jack ODonnell]

Sorry, the above was practice targets, not sight-in. If the bull is to small enlarge it. Also, you can make it like a scope target. Use a wide, black magic marker and run a horizontal line across the paper but leave a 2 to 3 inch gap in the center where the bull is. Also, run a vertical line from the center of the bull, up. Aim point is the bull center with the vertical running up from the front sight and the sight centered between the horizontal lines with them topped on the front sight (or where your hold on point of the front sight is). PRACTICE is the big key once you find a target that works and occasionally shoot from a bench on occasion to check sight alignment retention. I hope this helps!

 

[Renegadehunter]

Hey Flashpoint, something else I just thought of.
Were you swabbing between shots?
My renegade has to be swabbed or else it will start throwing them left after about 3 shots. It is an insane mystery to me how much my POI (point of impact) will change if I don't swab. I use a pretty tight PRB set up so it should be keeping the fouling consistent, but not swabbing just doesn't work in my rifle. At 50 yards if I don't swab I will also miss the entire box I have my target attached to, about a 16"X16" box. If I don't swab, my first shot will hit POA (point of aim), then the second shot will be about 3" left of that, the 3rd will be 6" left, and then after that I start missing the entire box. Run a swab down the bore and I'm right back to hitting POA. Makes no sense to me, I could understand if the fouling was building up and thus my PRB was a tighter fit and it started shooting higher, but mine takes off to the left real bad.

 

[afishhunter]

I have a Seneca but don't remember, are you SURE the load you are advocating is Safe in a Seneca

The T/C 'SHOOTING THOMPSON CENTER SIDELOCK BLACK POWDER GUNS' manual (page 73) gives a maximum charge of 90 grains FFg (2F) using a .440 PRB in the .45 caliber Seneca/Cherokee. (minimum is 50 grains FFG (2F).)
T/C does not give any FFFg (3F) or Fg (1F) loads for any of their rifles, regardless of caliber. FFg (2F) is the only powder they give load data for/recommend.

 

[Doug1968]

Is this a brand new gun by chance ?