White Rifles

[Pocampo]

Are there any "Doc" White Rifle shooters here on Modern Muzzleloader?

Can anyone enlighten as to the different models made etc, and any info on what was considered to be the most accurate models. Also what caliber, .451 or .504?



Thanks,
Pocampo

 

[sabotloader]

Pocampo

Are there any "Doc" White Rifle shooters here on Modern Muzzleloader?

Dang betcha! there are a bunch of folks shooting Whites...

Can anyone enlighten as to the different models made etc, and any info on what was considered to be the most accurate models. Also what caliber, .451 or .504?

.451/.504 - that is an indication of bore size and they are both very accurate either with big conicals or sabots...

 

[Nimrodder]

I have 5. My most accurate is my White Super 91 in .451 closely followed by my Lightnings in .504.

 

[Nimrodder]

This is Doc Whites web site.

http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/

 

[Underclocked]

A few of us here.

Primarily there are two types of White actions... the side cocking plunger action and the pull-cock plunger action. Over the years there have some variations of each action type and the bedding method used as well as changes in barrel producers.

The side-cocking models include the G-series, the Lightning (with right side cocking), the 97 Whitetail Hunter, and the Ultra Mag. Within those models you might find from 22 to 26 inch barrels.

The pull-cock models would include the Super91 and the Model 98 Elite Hunter. Some variations of the Super91 have been available with special models featuring full-length stocks or carbon fiber wrapped barrels. The action itself evolved over the years with changes primarily in type of safety and bolt release. The last of the 91s were the basis for the 98 - which is essentially a 91 action with a straight-tapered barrel, extra recoil lug, and a less elegant stock design. Barrel vendors also varied over the years but most Whites would be found to have either a Wilson or Clerke barrel.

My personal favorite is a 97 Ultra Mag in .504 with a Clerke barrel. Extremely accurate with a wide variety of loads.

The basitch child of White Rifles (IMHO) was the 209 based White Thunderbolt. A mistake.

 

[Pocampo]

sabotloader/nimrodder,

Thanks for the info.

Underclocked,
Dang, it seems you know a lot about the White rifle line. What can you tell me about the Super 91-II. Was it a good gun and what about the 97 Blacktail?

The impression I got from a picture I saw of a Thunderbolt looked like a very nice modern inline. I am somewhat confused as to your opinion as it was a mistake. Can you please tell me your opinion why?

Is the Super 91 better than say a 98 Elite ?

Which model would be the most accurate for target shooting with a 24"-26" barrel?

Lots of questions, and no I do not own one. I was thinking it might be a accurate muzzleloader to own and shoot.

I would really like to find just one muzzleloader that was reliably consistent , accuracy wise. I'm starting to think this is about 1.5"@100yds for most muzzleloaders and accurate to me is 1" or less at 100yds.

Pocampo

 

[sabotloader]

Pocampo

I have a model 97 U-Mag (.504) absolutely and awesome gun... but I am shooting all wrong by a lot of accounts... as I shoot sabots and 209 primers. The 1/24 twist of the gun allows it to shoot a huge variety of bullets from 600 grain conicals down to .40 - 200 grain bullets.

It is capable of shooting a wide range of powder loads. Of course if it a plunger type action so shooting BH is a bit risky.

The other thing I catch flack on is my real purdy stock that I got from DOC White..

This will give you the full effect....

UC is jealous!!!!

 

[Pocampo]

sabotloader,

that is a nice looking rig for sure.

The area you are in there seems to be pretty rugged with all the blowdowns, etc. It looks like Elk country.

I take it that your model shoots a #209 primer and you can see the residue around your bolt and scope and the protective scope cover you have installed.

Why dont the inline mfg's just make a small hinged or sliding metal cover to close the receiver cutout to prevent blowback from getting on your scope, etc. It seems like a good idea to me.

I know this is not a problem if you are using iron sights, but there are a lot of scoped inlines out there, maybe more than not.

Pocampo

 

[edmehlig]

Pocampo, if ya go to what us White owners call the "Dirty White Boys Forum" http://dwbs.proboards.com and register, I think there are still some White ML's being sold? To bad you didn't post a few weeks ago. I just sold a 451 caliber Super91 that I had Teflon Coated, plus a few other things. But at least it went to a good home. You will find that most White owners have a few of them. I use to own 6 at one time, but times being what they are I'm now down to three. And those three I am keeping I now have a M98, M97 and the M97 Ultra Mag. Which one is more accurate, they all are. I love the .451 and wish the Ultra Mag was offered in that caliber instead of the 504. But that is my personal prefrence as I love those longer slender connicals.

 

[MLKeith]

Yep there are a few of us. I have a .504 stainless laminated stock U-Mag, Just sold a 97 .451, just bought a Super 91 black iced .451 to replace it (the one mentioned above), and I have a .504 Thunderbolt with a .32 breechplug, a #11 plug with the 98 bolt so it can be a 98 or a Thunderbolt. The T-Bolt is long and very heavy which is some of the dislike. It was Doc's attempt at making a smokeless muzzleloader I think although he never passed it off as such and apparently did not want to get into the responsibilities.

 

[Pocampo]

edmehlig,

thanks for the info and the link to the "Dirty white Boys Forum". I will have to check it out for sure. It seems like the .451 cal is a good choice and seems to be accurate according to White owners.

MLKeith,

It seems you also like the .451 cal as you replaced the one you sold with same.

I think i would like the heavy Thunderbolt as I do a lot of deer hunting from a blind and like to target shoot from a bench in the off season.

What calibers did the Thunderbolt come in and was it also accurate? Also can you still find them for sale?

Pocampo

 

[Pocampo]

Pocampo, if ya go to what us White owners call the "Dirty White Boys Forum" http://dwbs.proboards.com and register.

I went to the website and registered but never got the activation code no emailed to me so I couldn't activate my account. I tried it twice. I may have to wait until tomorrow or something due to Xmas weekend.

Pocampo

 

[Underclocked]

Try your email now. Be warned, there is an unwritten code you must adhere to... but you'll have to figure it out.

What can you tell me about the Super 91-II? - The Super91-II was named simply because Doc ran out of under barrel ribs. It is every bit as good as the normal 91. It would be built on a late model action which has the sliding thumb safety on the Bold trigger and a thumbscrew bolt release.

All of the Whites incorporate a very functional, quiet, and nearly foolproof seconday safety that are as simple as can be. All the more recent models feature the Bold adjustable triggers.

What about the 97 Blacktail? - The 97 Blacktail is basically a stainless Model 97 Whitetail Hunter that has been teflon coated and has a lazer etched wildlife scene on the stock. Excellent rifle.

Which model would be the most accurate with 24 or 26" barrel? - a very tough question as there are superbly accurate examples among all the models. I'm just going to say, "take your pick" to that one.

I think any of the models would/could meet your standards. My Ultra Mag in .504 is superbly accurate as was my White 98 Elite Hunter in .451 (Chuck now owns it). I've got a little .451 model 97 that I put in an Ultra Mag synthetic stock - it's no slouch but I haven't really shot it enough to legitimately say it is broken in.

Go to The White Stuff when you get to the DWBs. Lots of good info there, hopefully. Some of the sections are just for madness and the madness tends to spread. Just take it in stride and go with the flow. Please do join in the posts though as I periodically DELETE accounts with no post activity.

That stock of Sabotloader's is starting to grow on me. Sort of like fungus. :wink: (Don't tell him but I do sorta like it.)

 

[Underclocked]

PS - the Thunderbolt was White's attempt to quickly put out a 209 capable rifle. It is basically a 98 Elite Hunter modified to accept a bolt. The design was and has been problematic from the get-go and I was one of the early "involuntary" beta testers. Testing was accompanied by a lot of serious swearing. The breech plug has yet to be made that will work as intended and it's only been several years now. The rifle is also unnecessarily heavy.

My advice is to stick to the #11 cap models and use appropriate powders.

 

[Pocampo]

underclocked,

I didn,t get an activation code right away so I clicked it again. I finally got one and when I try to activate my account it says invalid code no.

Maybe I just cant get there from here. Can you fix it or tell me what is wrong?

Thanks,
Pocampo

 

[Underclocked]

Seems like people have best luck using a yahoo email account. Some email accounts just don't seem to work correctly. I only approved your account just before my last post.

 

[GM54-120]

Seems like people have best luck using a yahoo email account. Some email accounts just don't seem to work correctly. I only approved your account just before my last post.

Thats what i had to do.

I tried a different ID first and my hotmail account and never got a confirmation email. On my yahoo account i got it within a minute or 2.

Glad i made it.
Nice review from White owners that are not just paid (INSERT IGNORE brand) hacks.

Great board! :yeah:

 

[Pocampo]

Underclocked,

thanks, I finally got it working and took a quick trip around the neighborhood. Dont know anything about the White rifles but am a quick learner and will even be faster if I can get a LNIB model that shoots one hole groups Ha,Ha

Please let me know if you hear of something.

One thing that I saw on DWB's that I thought was interesting was a bull barrel White "Bison". It had a short barrel. Must not have been very many made.

Pocampo

 

[Busta]

Pocampo,

It is real easy to get sucked into the White vacuum, I have owned one since about 1994, but salivated over them for a couple years before that. I already had a T/C Sidelock and an original MK-85 at that time. I bought a G-Series Whitetail in .504 SS/Syn B&C stock that shoots both conicals and saboted bullets so good that I could have stopped right there. But they are like Lay's potato chips, you can't have just one. I also have a Model 98 Elite Hunter in .451 SS/Gray Lam stock, and a White Thunder (Tominator) 12 ga Blue/Mossy Oak camo stock. They are all accurate to the point of being boring, that is what I own 10 more muzzleloaders for, always a challenge.

If you shoot one, be prepared to own one. Just the way it is. :wink:

If you find you way around DWB's site, you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know, and then some. :lol:

 

[whitetail]

Underclocked,

thanks, I finally got it working and took a quick trip around the neighborhood. Dont know anything about the White rifles but am a quick learner and will even be faster if I can get a LNIB model that shoots one hole groups Ha,Ha

Please let me know if you hear of something.

One thing that I saw on DWB's that I thought was interesting was a bull barrel White "Bison". It had a short barrel. Must not have been very many made.

Pocampo

Pocampo,
You are correct the Bison has a 22" barrel all were Bull barrel and Blued with Black painted hardwood stocks. They came in .504 and .540 cal. There were few .504's and even fewer .540's. I own a .540 and my brother has a .504. All the Bisons were Wilson barrel's and Doc say's he has never had one returned for accuracy issues.

IMO the most accurate rifle and caliber is the .410 in S91 or Super Safari. I own one of each and gotta say they are true tack drivers. With peep sites I used to be able to put six shots in under 3/4" at 100yrds.

The .451 and .504 are no slouch either. Both will shoot 5 shot groups at 1" 1 1/2" at 100yrds with practice. The Lightnig is a very accurate rifle as said earlier in this thread.

Like UC said the S91 II is Doc's S91 Without the under rib, some say the S91 II is more accurate than the S91 because it does not have the under rib. I dont own one so I cant say. This rifle should be a great shooter as are all the whites.

Have fun if ya get one.