Blackhorn 209 Question

[jdick345]

Anybody know what could be going on? I have shot about 3 containers of blackhorn 209 in my omega with the barnes tez with a 110 grain load using regular winchester 209 primers. Accuracy is great out to about 225 yards and I took 3 does with the load during our early muzzleloader season. Never had one problem with this load. I stopped by the range today to shoot it one time to make sure she is still perfect before our hunting season here in Delaware kicks back up on Nov. 13 for the rut. Fire four caps to make sure the gun is nice and dry, everything is fine. Load the gun up, put it on the rest, pull the trigger, primer goes off, powder does not ignite. Look at the primer and it is blown to bits. Figure bad primer, repeat everything, same result. Remove breech plug and load, swab barrel, check to make sure breech plug is clear (I could see through it), reload and get a hangfire. Had an old box of triple seven in my shooting box so I load up two pellets and boom, gun goes off. I had measured out 50 vials of powder the last time I was at the range about a month ago and they were tightly sealed in Lanes vials, I had ten left over and was using them at the range (I had kept them in my shooting box which is kept in the house, can't see how moisture could have gotten to them). After the triple seven I decided to give it one more try. Another habgfire and the primer is beat to hell. Just ordered a new breech plug about 5 minutes ago. Anybody know what in the hell could be the problem (I suspect bad powder, I have another three canisters but can't get back to the range anytime soon)? Luckily I have my 20 gauge H&R sighted in at 100 yards but I would much rather hunt with my omega as I love muzzleloading and I have much more range with it. Thanks for any help guys, it is much appreciated.

 

[rogo]

Balckhorn

Check your flame channel under the primer. Clean it out with a 1/8 inch drill bit. Do this by hand and not with an electric drill. If your flame channel is partially blocked the flame will not be sufficient to ignite Blackhorn. Even if you can see thru it, it might not be open enough for ignition.

Also I would recommend CCI 209M primers or Fed 209A. My Omega would not accept Winchester primers and these two are the best for Blackhorn.

Good luck!

 

[Busta]

I would bet your flame channel is full of carbon, even though you can see through the flash hole. What happens is carbon will fill the flame channel which is the 1/8" diameter channel from the primer pocket down to the flash hole.

Take a 1/8" drill bit and turn it into this area by hand. You may want to start with a smaller bit and work your way up, as it is much easier to go in steps. Once this area is filled in, you get blowback, since the gas has no where to go except through the flash hole, or back out through the primer itself. It will follow the path of least resistance. Think of the flame channel as an expansion chamber of sorts, once this is constricted, the pressure has to go someplace.

BH209 needs heat, pressure, and time for best ignition. The built up carbon not only retards the heat and pressure, it also reduces the time since your flame has chosen another (easier) path in the form of blowback.

Clean this area, use a Fed 209A or CCI 209M primer, and I am sure you will be back in business. Most people swear there is nothing in their breech plugs until they get out the drill bit, then they are amaized at how much hard carbon is deposited in that space.

The Knights and T/C's use a 1/8" drill bit, the CVA's use a slightly smaller diameter metric bit, but I have heard a 7/64" bit will work in them.

I have some custom plugs for my H&R/NEF's that utilize a slightly larger diameter 5/32" flame channel with a .031" vented screw liner. This extra 1/32" larger diameter will buy you several more shots before cleaning is required. i have another custom plug that has basically no flame channel, other than a funnel shaped primer pocket that has a .040" flash hole that is only about .200" from the powder pocket in the breech plug. This plug doesn't allow the carbon to build up, as it is pushed into the main powder charge. I can use any 209 primer made to ignite BH209 with this plug. This plug also utilizes an o-ring in the bottom of the primer pocket to aid in sealing blowback pressures.

I have shot a boat load of BH209 through 9 different muzzleloading rifles. I had some of these same problems when I started, because I was trying to see what the minimum ignition type (#11, .25 acp) would reliably set off the powder. It is just my nature to test things, and then try to improve them by making changes.

Let us know what you find?

 

[Busta]

rogo beat me to it. :lol:

I guess I am a slow typer. :wink:

 

[vabowhntr]

I agree with the drill bit, just drilled mine out today. I try to do it every 30 shots or so. You will be amazed at the amount of carbon in there.

 

[Lee 9]

Just as a point of interest. Sabotloader and myself have modified some breach plugs. The first one I did was for my Triumph And it was flame cut so the modification of putting a vent liner in made a lot of sense as new breach plugs are expensive. It was Sabotloader's idea to drill all the way through with the #21 drill instead of just enough to tap 10-32 for the vent liner. If it is the Lehigh vent liner or the extra space for the expanding gas or a combination there of I don't know I do know the results is that now I only have a minimum of carbon deposit compared to before. Lee

 

[prostreetcamaro]

i have another custom plug that has basically no flame channel, other than a funnel shaped primer pocket that has a .040" flash hole that is only about .200" from the powder pocket in the breech plug. This plug doesn't allow the carbon to build up, as it is pushed into the main powder charge. I can use any 209 primer made to ignite BH209 with this plug. This plug also utilizes an o-ring in the bottom of the primer pocket to aid in sealing blowback pressures.

Ahhh yes the MU plug is a wonderful work of art isn't it?

 

[Just Mike]

I'm going to join the crowd. I had the same problem with the same primer and powder. It was the fouled breech plug. The advice I received solved my problem.

 

[jdick345]

Thanks for the help guys, it is much appreciated

 

[paia]

Just as a point of interest. Sabotloader and myself have modified some breach plugs. The first one I did was for my Triumph And it was flame cut so the modification of putting a vent liner in made a lot of sense as new breach plugs are expensive. It was Sabotloader's idea to drill all the way through with the #21 drill instead of just enough to tap 10-32 for the vent liner. If it is the Lehigh vent liner or the extra space for the expanding gas or a combination there of I don't know I do know the results is that now I only have a minimum of carbon deposit compared to before. Lee

Is there a thread here on MML that explains this breech plug modification with photos? I'd love to see an explanation. I do some machining at work and think this is something that I'd like to try. Thanks

 

[rat trapper]

Has anyone installed a vent liner in a Knight disc extreme with the full plastic (red) disc jacket breech plug?

 

[Lee 9]

Paia
I have never been able to post pictures here , have to go though a secondary sever or something. There were several posts with pictures when Sabotloader and I were working on that project on Hunting Net.
Lee