Pistol questions

[wihill]

Hey gang, I've got a couple questions on pistols if anyone could help me.

I've been researching some information regarding different calibers and applications. The application I'm trying to match up with are hunting and residential safety. I have a couple requirements for each of these:
1) Be reliable and easy to handle for my wife in the event that I'm not availible
2) Have the ability to shoot a reduced power load (I live in a residentail neighborhood, and I don't want to put my neighbors in danger)
3) Have at least a 6" barrel (State limits hunting pistols to anything OVER 5" from the firing pin)

Ideally, my favorite caliber is the .40Auto. It has the ability to meet all my requirements with the exception of a 6" barrel, I can't find an auto with a barrel larger than 4", and an auto is not my first choice in a hunting weapon.

That leaves the wheel guns, a personal favorite from a young age. I've looked at both the .357mag and the .44mag. The .357 offers the most reasonble recoil energy for a magnum load, is inexpensive to shoot with .38Sp, and has a maximum range of approximately 50yrd (the most I'd be looking to attempt with a handgun hunting) on a medium frame. The downsides are lack of penetration unless I go to a cast round of at least 180gr, and really the bare minimum in terms of a hunting cartrige. The .44mag has penetration out the wazzoo, with recoil to match - even shooting .44Sp, it's still just shy of the .357 in terms of recoil energy. .44's are large frame and offer extended distance with barrel options in excess of my minimum length. I've looked at the .41mag, but the manufacturer choices are slim and the ammunition choices are even more bleak - a shame as it would fit the bill as a wonderful halfway point.

I've had the wife out shooting with me, and she can easily handle a 9mm, .40auto, .45acp (actually shot better than me with that one!) and did manage to hit the target 6/10 times with a DE.44mag - but you could tell she was done with that one. Her individual favorite was the .40auto - which doesn't help my decision at all.

I've considered a Contender, but that would be a hunting only pistol and open a lot of other cartridge possibilities.

So! For those that have owned the .357 and/or .44, I would appreciate your insight and experiences with both - including any other opinions or options you may suggest!

 

[Buck]

Protect

I have had my wife shooting and she likes the 380 round, doesn't enjoy the mag shooting and knows the 22 LR is not enough.
But i have been told over and over by Law enforcement pros, pump shotgun. Racking the slide is the first warning, and being able to blow a wide pattern down an entire hallway in a stressful situation is the second reason . This goes for men and women. It is also a good gun for smaLL GAME AND DEER. My wife chose a shotgun for home protection vs. the pistol. Good Luck

 

[gamegetter]

Take a look at the .41 Mag..

Great gun for hunting game.
For home defense use the .41 special loads...

 

[cayuga]

I own both of them in revolvers.. For hunting I like a revolver. Although there is nothing wrong with a pistol. I have a couple of them also.

The .357 mag can be just as brutal as the .44 mag if the frame of the revolver is small and your shooting magnum loads. Try and look for at least an L frame in the Smith & Wesson. Then get a good set of Pacymer grips. That helps take the bite out of it. Ruger Security Six is good, but I always liked Colt or S&W in wheel guns.

Loaded with a 38 special, the .357 makes a good short range home defence weapon as all your shots are normally under 15 yards in those situations. Granted it does not have the stopping power of a .357 but sometimes the benefit of recoil control is an advantage over the power house loads. I've know some men who had trouble hanging on to a rapid fire .357 in a combat situation. Placing that first shot will be the critical thing there. Or at least let Mr. Bad guy know your serious about home defence.

The .44 magnum is one of my favorite hunting handguns. I have a RED DOT on mine which is a Ruger Redhawk. At 50 yards, a deer is in big trouble. I never shot my .44 mag loaded down. With the hunting loads there is some recoil, but when I shot a deer a few years back with it, I never felt the thing go off. It would not be my choice of home defence. To big, and hard to hang on to when the chips are down.

Instead, perhaps a nice hunting revolver for the both of you in a .41 mag caliber or a .357 and then for the home, that .40 S&W is hard to beat in a firefight. Easy to load and to shoot instinctive style. Point and shoot with plenty behind it to get the job done. Sometimes you just need more then one gun.

 

[wihill]

Thanks everyone for the info -

Dave, you're not helping. :lol:

There is an 870 in the house already, and it has a pistol grip and adjustable stock piece with recoil reduction - in addition to it's 28" barrel and extra-full choke. Works great on turkeys, but it's a little much in a hallway. Get about 10" off the barrel and it'd be much better around a building. You're absolutely right, though Buck - the sound of an 870 (noisiest shotgun I've owned) racking is universal for "this is going to hurt". I've done some reading on it, and there are reduced power shot loads and slug loads for "urban friendly" enviroments. I suppose a $70 police barrel wouldn't be the worst of investments...

Back to revolvers, the two .357's I've considered were the Rugar GP100 (med frame) and the S&W 686 (med frame). After posting this, I've done even more research and reading on the subject and think it would be in my best interest to move up to the .44mag. Looking at the options of the .44spec, .44 cowboy loads, and full mags I think I can accomplish much of what I'd like to have in an overall hunting revolver with added bonuses. The only thing I'm not overly wild about is the large frame, but it's a requirement with the mag loads... I figure some porting and a reasonable barrel length would help to tame it down some.

I'm still learning about all the options availible... in the end I have a feeling Dave may be correct... :? :lol:

 

[minst7877]

Many say the recoil from the 44 is easier to manage than from the 357. I used to have a S & W 27-2 357 that shot very good and it could be loaded down with a light 38 spec load so that it was cheaper to play with and got you used to handling it so when you did the heavy mag loads they weren't to bad.

DC

 

[cayuga]

One of my .357 magnum revolvers is a S&W model 686 stainless with a four inch barrel. It is a sweet shooting revolver and if it ever came down to home defence would be what I would probably go for. Just the noise when it goes off would scare the devil out of them.

I shot the Ruger GP100 and I can not put my finger on it, but did not like that gun. And normally I like Ruger. I own a couple of Ruger handguns and they are good shooters. Maybe my 686 spoiled me.

The best .357 I owned and was talked into selling was a Smith & Wesson that had a K frame. It was built on a .44 caliber frame and was .357 caliber. I forget the model number but for a while all the police officers were using them. They were heavy, but man would they shoot. I want to say it was a model 29 but I can not swear to it. A guy was headed out west bow hunting and wanted to take a handgun with him. I refused to loan him one, so he bought my S&W and said when he got back, I could buy it back from him. Well I never did and he never offered.

A good shotgun with a short barrel is still hard to beat in a hallway. With a little point aim, a moderate size shot load (I always liked the #4 buckshot) and some determination to survive, they will cover a good area and might not pass through the wall and kill the neighbor. Also your right, that racking sound of a 870 or a mossberg 500 had been proven to make the bad guy change their mind.

That Ruger Redhawk is a nice revolver. And the grip is not all that large (as you soon find out when you shoot a full boat load). And it will knock a deer flat. The first deer I shot with mine was walking straight at me. I did not really want to shoot a doe that soon in the season but could not resist the opportunity, so I shot her up close. She never took a step at the blast. The deer I shot a few years back, to test out the red dot, was about 35 yards away. I dotted behind her front shoulder and blew a hole through her bigger then I ever thought a handgun would do. I was shooting Winchester 240 grain Hollow Points out of it.

 

[wihill]

Dave -

I'm almost positive that you're correct on the model 29. Everything I've seen, felt, and read about them fits your discription to a "T". I just can't seem to find one for a reasonable amount. Reasonable is subjective of course. :wink:

Out of the GP100 and the 686, I feel more solid with the 686 and because of that factor I have a feeling that's what's making me shoot a bit better with it - subjectively they both shoot better than I can.

There is a local shop that has a Colt Andaconda in .44mag used, but they don't have a range to test it out, and the barrel's only 4", the minimum I'd like is a 6.5". I've got a friend that has the Rugar SRH, and it's a very nice piece of work. I seem to have the same problem with the SRH as I do with the GP100 though, just something I can't put my finger on. I know I don't like trigger on the Rugars. I think I just need to shoot more until I find the one that likes me.

 

[big6x6]

Easy answer: .357 Remington Mag.

Reasons:

1. Can still be used on a medium frame revolver. Much, MUCH easier handling than a large frame. Much, MUCH lighter and better balance. A .41/.44./.45 cal revolver is too much for the average male to shoot accurately much less a female.

2. Ammo..from .38 Special wadcutters that are EASY to shoot VERY accurately to full-bore .357 Mag loads that will easily kill a whitetail with the correct bullet and when the shooter does their part.

3. Recoil..Back to the .38 Special 148gr wadcutters..Talk about ACCURATE! Recoil with this load is a JOKE! I can think of no other load that is any easier for someone to learn the ins and outs with a handgun.

4. Unless you are going to shoot something larger than a whitetail, a .357 Mag will be just fine for hunting. Winchester 180gr Partition Gold or basically ANY 180gr JHP will be fine(I have used 140gr and 158gr successfully!).

5. Availability of S&W 686(wish they still make a model 19!). What a GREAT revolver!

Easy, EASY decision IMO.

 

[wihill]

Thanks for the list Chuck, a lot of those points really made sense to me.

I guess I'm partially to blame in that I do listen and take other's experiences into account before considering a significant purchase such as this. A lot of the shops and people I've spoken with around here are heavily leaning on the .44mag. It's a great cartige for sure, but part of me believes that it could be overkill for what I'm really looking for.

Another hit for the 686, interesting. Most people I've spoken to prefer the overbuilt GP100, stating it's frame and cost as the major decision breakers. 686 just "feels" better to me...

Just to toss another "what if" on the fire, next year I'm looking to head out west for possible mule deer/elk hunting. In no way would I consider using a .357 for hunting these creatures, but the thought of using it as a deterent for bears did cross my mind. I understand the limitations of the cartridge, but would a 180gn be enough to change the mind of a hungery fuzzy? More of a backup for the bow than anything...

 

[cayuga]

A person I know is a bear guide up here. He was walking a client in to a bait station stand a few years back and on the bait was a medium bear. I think as I remember, they said it was 170 pounds dressed. So it was not huge, but a good eating bear.

The client using a bow, was not even ready. The bear stood, looked aggressive (they claimed) but did not charge. The guide also had a harvest permit himself, so he pulled his .357 magnum revolver out. He asked the client if he wanted that bear as it was not huge, but a nice eating bear. The client told him no.

He popped that bear five times with that .357 magnum at about 15 yards and dropped it where it stood. When we were talking about his bear, I asked him.. why didn't the bear take off? He said, we were walking in, wind in our face so it did not smell us, and it wanted the bait station. I personally think, things were going to get real hot around there had he not shot it.

The next year, he had traded in that .357 for a .454 Casull revolver. And he complained, he could not hit a bull in the hind end with that thing. The recoil was too much for him. He should have stayed with the magnum.

 

[wihill]

Thanks, Dave and Chuck! 8)