Muzzleloading Shotgun Tip

[Swamp]

I came across something and wanted to share my findings. Might be nothing new not sure, but here it goes. I have a bunch of 12 ga shot cups that I harvested out of older 3-1/2" shells that a neighbor gave me. He was going to dispose of them as the brass and primers were very corroded from several years of hunting waterfowl. After cutting the shells open to harvest the steel shot and shot cups (which is what I was really after) I used these shot cups in my Knight TK2000 and started patterning this gun. I have over powder, cushion wads, and over shot cards that I'm using with these shot cups. I shot several shots at 30 & 40 yds, only to find the patterns very erratic. Off to one side, then high. There was no consistency. I then took a closer look at the shot cups, and noticed that one of the four slits cut in the cup was not as deep as the other 3 slits. I looked at the all of the cups, and they were all consistent with one slit cut shallower than the other three. I thought for a second, could this be a possible answer to my erratic patterns?

So here's what I came up with. I measured the deepest cut slits from the base of the cup, and took a forstner bit and drilled a hole in a piece of scrap walnut I had laying in the shop to that measurement. I then put each shot cup into the block, and cut all the slits with an exacto knife to the same depth. Back to the range.

I loaded up the TK with my load (90 grs Pyro Select, over powder card, cushion wad, shot cup and 2oz of #5 Lead shot, then 2 overshot cards. set the pattern board at 30 yds, and shot! HOLY COW, absolutely awesome pattern. New piece of paper, loaded up, shot again! Same results. I didn't shoot at 40 yds as I know any turkey at 40 will be in serious trouble with my patterns at 30 yds.

So, have any of you ever done anything like this? I cannot believe that having ONE SLIT cut shallow would make such a difference, but it really did!

 

[MrTom]

He was going to dispose of them as the brass and primers were very corroded from several years of hunting waterfowl.
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That was a nifty idea! Now, do you suppose that HIS gun shot lousy patterns too and was the reason they never got used? Steel 3-1/2"ers are not cheap. One would think that some quality control would have found the bad cups before they got loaded. Sharp eye to notice the error.

 

[DavidAR10T]

No. If I paid myself to save every darn nickel that I can, I would go bankrupt and not have time to use a urinal.
MMP SABOTs. The time and money saved will be used for: good bourbon, flying in seafood, flying to catch my own seafood, and everything else to enjoy life to the fullest with my wife. And it doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to figure out the REAL Solution Set.
______________________
Now, I will agree that esoteric pursuits have a quality all of their own. It's the way Goodyear Rubber was invented. God Bless to all.

 

[white eagle]

that is great news for the future
will bank it for sure

 

[Ninering62]

I came across something and wanted to share my findings. Might be nothing new not sure, but here it goes. I have a bunch of 12 ga shot cups that I harvested out of older 3-1/2" shells that a neighbor gave me. He was going to dispose of them as the brass and primers were very corroded from several years of hunting waterfowl. After cutting the shells open to harvest the steel shot and shot cups (which is what I was really after) I used these shot cups in my Knight TK2000 and started patterning this gun. I have over powder, cushion wads, and over shot cards that I'm using with these shot cups. I shot several shots at 30 & 40 yds, only to find the patterns very erratic. Off to one side, then high. There was no consistency. I then took a closer look at the shot cups, and noticed that one of the four slits cut in the cup was not as deep as the other 3 slits. I looked at the all of the cups, and they were all consistent with one slit cut shallower than the other three. I thought for a second, could this be a possible answer to my erratic patterns?

So here's what I came up with. I measured the deepest cut slits from the base of the cup, and took a forstner bit and drilled a hole in a piece of scrap walnut I had laying in the shop to that measurement. I then put each shot cup into the block, and cut all the slits with an exacto knife to the same depth. Back to the range.

I loaded up the TK with my load (90 grs Pyro Select, over powder card, cushion wad, shot cup and 2oz of #5 Lead shot, then 2 overshot cards. set the pattern board at 30 yds, and shot! HOLY COW, absolutely awesome pattern. New piece of paper, loaded up, shot again! Same results. I didn't shoot at 40 yds as I know any turkey at 40 will be in serious trouble with my patterns at 30 yds.

So, have any of you ever done anything like this? I cannot believe that having ONE SLIT cut shallow would make such a difference, but it really did!
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Thanks for the fantastic post Swamp. It was very interesting as it was informative, & nuthin is better than firsthand experience. Your sharp mind & attn to detail, paid off for you, once again, I'm sure. Thnaks for shaaring that with us. I'm a new'b to BP shotgunning myself, so I read everything I come across about it.

 

[ElDiablo]

Interesting. Which brand of shells did those come from? I wonder if that was a flaw in that particular batch of wads. Never seen that before.

 

[toytruck]

I wonder how many shotguns were sold, thinking it was the gun or choke when it was the shell?
I have noticed similar results with wads I cut for my Thunder shotgun. A crooked slit won't throw a tight pattern as a straight slit. Depth of the slits matters!

 

[Swamp]

Interesting. Which brand of shells did those come from? I wonder if that was a flaw in that particular batch of wads. Never seen that before.

These were Winchester Xpert Steel Shot shells.

 

[ElDiablo]

I happen to have 4 or 5 cases of these 3.5” shells on hand so I cut a few open to check them. In the BB and 3s I looked at the slits were more or less uniform (slightly shorter slits in the BBs than the 3s). These were all pretty recent production. So who knows. Bad batch of wads I’m guessing. Thanks again for posting!

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Very interesting info. I notice your shot cups do not have a cup or cushion on the bottom, so that allows your typical ML shotgun wad column to interact well with the shot cup and not stick to it. Modern shot cups also have the problem of not being the same diameter as a shotgun bore of that shotshell gauge, because the wad is made to go inside the shotshell, and its cupped base is made to expand at firing and fill the bore for a gas seal -- important to avoid blown patterns. It also aligns the shotcup to the bore axis.

I suspect your shotcup was riding up the bore at a slight angle, and the shorter slit on one side caused the shot to bunch up in the cup so that it did not release evenly at the muzzle, resulting in a bad pattern. Once you evened out the slit length, perhaps lengthening it slightly too, it allowed the shot to leave the shotcup readily and evenly, thus giving a good pattern.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa