Looking for muzzle velocity data .45 full bore Blackhorn 209 or other substitutes ?

[45-70]

Bob, I make the ballistics charts I posted only after sending bullets through the chronograph, so the velocities in the charts are verified actual 15' from the muzzle, which I think is what he's looking for ??
For myself, once I get actual velocities, I create the charts I posted, only as a guide for range work. I can get myself on paper, but there's always a final adjustment necessary.
Only after I confirm the actual, will I make a drop chart specific to the actual drops.

You're absolutely correct, you have to shoot it to verify drops.

I know. he ask for real time and didn't know if he saw it that way some don't that is the problem sometimes

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I know. he ask for real time and didn't know if he saw it that way some don't that is the problem sometimes

Wait a minute! So you're saying, that just because its in a chart, and someone else got these results, all things being equal, you're saying i could still get different results? That's enough make me want to see for myself what happens! What next? I gotta move my own legs when i walk?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Sorry, im stir crazy from being unenjoyable for 4 weeks

 

[45-70]

Wait a minute! So you're saying, that just because its in a chart, and someone else got these results, all things being equal, you're saying i could still get different results? That's enough make me want to see for myself what happens! What next? I gotta move my own legs when i walk?

No, I found that a drop chart you make from Ballistic Calculator , is not always what your rifle will shoot in real world, you must shoot your rifle to see if it is correct , dope must be put on scope for each yardage to see if it matches. Is that a little better explanation?

 

[Doccbst1]

I'm just trying to pick a bullet that will perform down range before I start shooting. Doing the math first. What I see is a flat brick wall of 800lbs Kinetic energy (barely enough for whitetail) at 300 yds at even the best velocity using Blackhorn up to 120gn measured 84gn wt.
I was hoping a little extra velocity and accuracy using a .45 full bore. Seems to me, just like a .50 best results/performance are achieved using sabots and smaller diameter bullets than bore. A 40/45 200gr SST sabot is almost the same as a 300gr .45 SST at 300 yds.
So maybe the answer is a heavier .40 cal bullet in a .45 sabot. Not many out there, I see one 240gr and one 260gr. available, not sure if they'll work in a 1:22 twist.

 

[ronlaughlin]

These mv seem low to me, if you are burning 120g Blackhorn; what am i missing?

 

[ENCORE50A]

I'm just trying to pick a bullet that will perform down range before I start shooting. Doing the math first. What I see is a flat brick wall of 800lbs Kinetic energy (barely enough for whitetail) at 300 yds at even the best velocity using Blackhorn up to 120gn measured 84gn wt.
I was hoping a little extra velocity and accuracy using a .45 full bore. Seems to me, just like a .50 best results/performance are achieved using sabots and smaller diameter bullets than bore. A 40/45 200gr SST sabot is almost the same as a 300gr .45 SST at 300 yds.
So maybe the answer is a heavier .40 cal bullet in a .45 sabot. Not many out there, I see one 240gr and one 260gr. available, not sure if they'll work in a 1:22 twist.

I may not totally understand what you're trying to achieve but, if you increase the bullet weight and increase the bullets BC, you achieve more bullet energy down range.

Ballistics charts can be your friend, but also cause you to make mistakes, like has already been mentioned with bullet drop. Never go just by what a chart says for drop without actually shooting your maximum hunting distance. The charts can only be as accurate as the information used, then still must be verified.

If you were to use a 300gr bullet, measuring .450" +/- with a BC of .300 and sending that bullet at 2,000fps, it gives you adequate bullet energy at 300yds for whitetail. The data in bold was used to create the chart below.

Compare this chart to your charts above. Notice the energy difference with a heavier bullet with a higher BC?

 

[Doccbst1]

I may not totally understand what you're trying to achieve but, if you increase the bullet weight and increase the bullets BC, you achieve more bullet energy down range.

Ballistics charts can be your friend, but also cause you to make mistakes, like has already been mentioned with bullet drop. Never go just by what a chart says for drop without actually shooting your maximum hunting distance. The charts can only be as accurate as the information used, then still must be verified.

If you were to use a 300gr bullet, measuring .450" +/- with a BC of .300 and sending that bullet at 2,000fps, it gives you adequate bullet energy at 300yds for whitetail. The data in bold was used to create the chart below.

Compare this chart to your charts above. Notice the energy difference with a heavier bullet with a higher BC?

View attachment 8124

Yea, it's a tough equation, actually trying to stay at around 110gr.measured/ 80gr wt to enhance accuracy (theory until proven at the range) and off the shelf .45 projectiles that are stable in a 1:22 twist rifle. Most of these are BCE around .250.
I know a heavier projectile is better down range but limited to SST 300gr XTP 300gr and deep curl Speer 300gr.
These all leave muzzle at around 1850 fps with a sub max Blackhorn load. 100 gr measured according to Blackhorn velocity chart.
Precision Dead Center looks promising but they're lead based non copper plated. I'd prefer copper.
The premium bullets Parker, Pittman, Arrowhead even Thor and others are potentials but it's hard to buy $80-$150 worth of bullets on speculation.
I'm using Nikon Spot on as a comparitive software because it at least allows you to vary powder charge but does not include Blackhorn just regular black and subs. Would I punch in the numbers and take a shot at a live animal? Of course not.
Magic Bullet (pun) would be + - 300gr copper plated/jacketed or all copper, tipped hollow point with muzzle velocity + - 2,000 fps with 110gr Max Blackhorn.
1,000 ft/ lbs KE @300yds
This is all theory and I would prefer 3-5 versions to verify on a range.
I guess that's a whole lot of hope but that's just me. These are what I have so far .452 or ..451 knurled up to .452.
Full Bore
XTP 300gr .452
SST 300gr .451
Deep Curl 300gr .452
PB ELR 280gr
Berry Blue Diamond 275gr .452
Remington Accutip 250gr .451
Smackdown 250gr .451
TC Cheap Shots (lead) 240gr .450
Saboted
SST 40/45 200gr
TC Shockwave 40/45 200gr
Barnes 40/45 195gr.
Considered but not purchased:
Thor .45 and .40 .401, Dead Center .357, 40/45, Barnes 290gr TMZ

 

[Ninering62]

That would be very helpfull. I have recently began shooting 45 sabotless also.

Me too, I am new to BH 209 & full bore bullets. I'm shooting .45 as well. I saw no other logical choice but to finally after 50yrs of hunting & target shooting to buy a chrony. I got a Caldwell that plugs into my smart phone & works with their free app for 136.99 on amazon. WELL worth the investment. I have ran 250gr & 265gr Fury Bullets thru the chrony using 105 & 98gr BH 209. The 250's were over 2500fps MV & the 265's using 98gr were 2450fps MV on avg.
I'll be shooting T7 fff today in my ACCURA .45 ( out of BH 209 )
I'll set the chrony up & see what happens . There are comparasin charts on the web & I'm sure someone in here can & will help ya out more so than I can. Kind regards

 

[ENCORE50A]

…………...

Magic Bullet (pun) would be + - 300gr copper plated/jacketed or all copper, tipped hollow point with muzzle velocity + - 2,000 fps with 110gr Max Blackhorn.
1,000 ft/ lbs KE @300yds...………………..

I discussed through PM with Dennis at Fury, the possibility of making a 300gr bullet with the .015" jacket. Dennis is ALWAYS willing to make what people want/need. However, discussion was as far as the conversation went, at the time. I would not ask for special 300gr bullets just for myself.
I personally like 300gr bullets, mostly because I shoot more long range. The Fury line of bullets are great bullets used for hunting.

https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/223/black-powder-muzzleloader

 

[Ninering62]

When the weather improves, I will be getting the chrono out and will be shooting only 45cal bullet to bore, using BH209 at 84/120grs. All bullets will set on a .060" veggie wad, using LRMP's in modules.
I have 250, 275 and 300gr bullets to shoot.
If you're looking for that type information, I'd be glad to provide it. BUT.... our weather must get better first

That goes Ditto for me too. I'd be happy to do ya a load data chart for the weight of bullet & charge you need in .45 cal up to the 310gr Parker Match/Hunter hollow base bullets & have & down to 250gr Parker BE's & Fury .453's. I hade 270 gr Parker E Max & 275 BE & BM, also I have some 265gr Fury .453's.I'm currently outta BH 209 so I won't be shooting my Paramount for abit. But I will be shooting the heck outta my Accura V2 .45 using T7 fff at 80gr bv for the most part. If you want a specific charge weight just LMK & I'll adjust & run thru chrony & send ya a screenshot of the chart. You can PM all the data that need to be plugged for the chart. If you have a specific bullet you want a chart for, send me a few & I'll run them at the load you want to use thru the chrony & hook ya up. No probs Kind regards

 

[sabotloader]

Not sure this information is what you want or will help any... but I ran this testing several years ago

 

[45-70]

Yea, it's a tough equation, actually trying to stay at around 110gr.measured/ 80gr wt to enhance accuracy (theory until proven at the range) and off the shelf .45 projectiles that are stable in a 1:22 twist rifle. Most of these are BCE around .250.
I know a heavier projectile is better down range but limited to SST 300gr XTP 300gr and deep curl Speer 300gr.
These all leave muzzle at around 1850 fps with a sub max Blackhorn load. 100 gr measured according to Blackhorn velocity chart.
Precision Dead Center looks promising but they're lead based non copper plated. I'd prefer copper.
The premium bullets Parker, Pittman, Arrowhead even Thor and others are potentials but it's hard to buy $80-$150 worth of bullets on speculation.
I'm using Nikon Spot on as a comparitive software because it at least allows you to vary powder charge but does not include Blackhorn just regular black and subs. Would I punch in the numbers and take a shot at a live animal? Of course not.
Magic Bullet (pun) would be + - 300gr copper plated/jacketed or all copper, tipped hollow point with muzzle velocity + - 2,000 fps with 110gr Max Blackhorn.
1,000 ft/ lbs KE @300yds
This is all theory and I would prefer 3-5 versions to verify on a range.
I guess that's a whole lot of hope but that's just me. These are what I have so far .452 or ..451 knurled up to .452.
Full Bore
XTP 300gr .452
SST 300gr .451
Deep Curl 300gr .452
PB ELR 280gr
Berry Blue Diamond 275gr .452
Remington Accutip 250gr .451
Smackdown 250gr .451
TC Cheap Shots (lead) 240gr .450
Saboted
SST 40/45 200gr
TC Shockwave 40/45 200gr
Barnes 40/45 195gr.
Considered but not purchased:
Thor .45 and .40 .401, Dead Center .357, 40/45, Barnes 290gr TMZ

Don't know what you want but most of those bullets won't work at 300 yds.

 

[52Bore]

This might help somewhat.

 

[Doccbst1]

Don't know what you want but most of those bullets won't work at 300 yds.

Any that will ?

 

[ronlaughlin]

Any that will ?

Yes............

Look Here --Supporting Data

 

[Doccbst1]

Yes............

Look Here --Supporting Data

Thank You, that's what I was looking for.