Anyone had any luck with 357/45 sabots in an Accura

[GM54-120]

Ive had great luck with BH209 and 40/45 sabots with a wide variety of bullets and sabots. Even the standard Win209 primers have been faultless at the range.

I recently bought some PR 357/45 sabots made for them by MMP. These are orange and not the older MMP formula. It appears these sabots prefer a beveled or boattail base.

These will mostly be just plinking loads but i did buy some 200gr .358 FTX and Sierra Pro hunters made for the 35Rem. Im planning on trying the 180gr Hornady Single shot pistol bullet too.

Other bullets i have on hand to try.

38 Super 130gr FMJ. I use these in a 9mm carbine so i have plenty of them.

9mm 147gr XTP with a bevel base...these sound good for sub 1800fps loads and the bevel base fit the sabot perfect.

357 124gr copper plated semi flat point .

Im planning on using 60grs to start and dont want to exceed 80grs for plinking loads. If all goes well then i want to try the 200gr FTX and 100grs of BH209 and a dry felt wad over the powder.

The sectional density of the 200gr class of 358 options is sweet and i love the FTX series so far. They fit very tight in the sabot at the base.

So guys...how fast and accurate have you been able to get a 357/45 load?

My main goal is a lighter and cheaper option just for plinking and accuracy needs to stay within 2MOA. My Accura does this easily with the 10mm 180gr plated bullets with 80gr of BH209 and a CCI209M primer.

My other question is how well has anyone got the really light weight 10mm bullets to shoot, such as the 155gr class. T/C rates these at over 2400fps but at what cost to accuracy? Their data is with Pyrodex pellets and i dont use pellets at all. Loose powder with a good compressed load has been the best sofar. The dry felt wads seem to help a bit and are really cheap. They seem to help protect the sabot base and keep the bore a tiny bit cleaner. Only about $20 per 1000 too.

I absolutely LOVE this 45 Accura and want to experiment a bit more for a review im working on for Toby Bridges.

Thanks and have a Merry Christmas.

 

[lane]

Ive had great luck with BH209 and 40/45 sabots with a wide variety of bullets and sabots. Even the standard Win209 primers have been faultless at the range.

I recently bought some PR 357/45 sabots made for them by MMP. These are orange and not the older MMP formula. It appears these sabots prefer a beveled or boattail base.

These will mostly be just plinking loads but i did buy some 200gr .358 FTX and Sierra Pro hunters made for the 35Rem. Im planning on trying the 180gr Hornady Single shot pistol bullet too.

Other bullets i have on hand to try.

38 Super 130gr FMJ. I use these in a 9mm carbine so i have plenty of them.

9mm 147gr XTP with a bevel base...these sound good for sub 1800fps loads and the bevel base fit the sabot perfect.

357 124gr copper plated semi flat point .

Im planning on using 60grs to start and dont want to exceed 80grs for plinking loads. If all goes well then i want to try the 200gr FTX and 100grs of BH209 and a dry felt wad over the powder.

The sectional density of the 200gr class of 358 options is sweet and i love the FTX series so far. They fit very tight in the sabot at the base.

So guys...how fast and accurate have you been able to get a 357/45 load?

My main goal is a lighter and cheaper option just for plinking and accuracy needs to stay within 2MOA. My Accura does this easily with the 10mm 180gr plated bullets with 80gr of BH209 and a CCI209M primer.

My other question is how well has anyone got the really light weight 10mm bullets to shoot, such as the 155gr class. T/C rates these at over 2400fps but at what cost to accuracy? Their data is with Pyrodex pellets and i dont use pellets at all. Loose powder with a good compressed load has been the best sofar. The dry felt wads seem to help a bit and are really cheap. They seem to help protect the sabot base and keep the bore a tiny bit cleaner. Only about $20 per 1000 too.

I absolutely LOVE this 45 Accura and want to experiment a bit more for a review im working on for Toby Bridges.

Thanks and have a Merry Christmas.

The ones above in Red I have already tried, and they all failed to stabilize. The .358 180-200g jacketed rifle bullets are too long for the 1:28 twist, and will ussually Drill-Thru the sabot=will blow thru the base, and you will see holes in the bases of your orange sabots.

The 9mm 147g XTP Boat Tail is an Odd Duck ballisticly and will not stabilize, and will also drill thru.

You really need the 1:20 or faster twist to do justice with the longer .358 and 9mm bullets.

Here is my best low-cost plinker and deer killer for the 10mm/40cal bullets:

Berry's Bullets with the Harvester Smooth Blue Sabot

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H4540B

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product.aspx?i=14500&c=14&pp=8&sb=0&p=0

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true






The 160-180g 40cal Berry's also shoot very well and clock some high speeds with 120g powder loads :wink:

Hope this saves you some aggravation and start-up costs 8)

 

[GM54-120]

I currently use cheaper plated bullets for plinking but 40 vs 9mm pricing are quite a bit more. The 180gr plated 40s i have look just like Havesters Funnel points but less than half the cost.

I mainly wanted to try the ones i listed because i already use them for other reloading and i dont own anything in 40 or 10mm.

I wonder how PR gets the 195gr 357 Dead Centers type bullets to stabilize? Ive shot their 250gr 40/45 QTs without an issue and they are very long for the caliber.

Did you try any over powder fiber or felt wads? I wish MMP made a magnum sub base in 45. :evil:

 

[1Windy]

The pr .357/in a 45 cal gun I have a winchester X-150 that shoots the pr .357 bullet with excellent results I have harvested a doe at 188 yds
with 110 gr 777ff checked with a laser range finder before I shot all though
I had to trail the deer for 150yds I had a decent blood trail through grass
I harvested alot of deer with that bullet at 150 yds and closer

 

[Busta]

Lane,

Did they look like these?

GM54-120,

I have done some testing with the 200 gr .358" FTX in the PR orange .45/.357" sabots in both a 1:30 twist Knight and a 1:20 Knight and White.

The biggset problems I had were as pictured above, also the bullets key-holed out of the 1:30. The 1:20's stabilized them, but I never got the pin-point accuracy I was looking for. If it is warm weather, don't even waste your time. In the cooler weather, they would do better, but never what I would call great.

IMO, the extremely long continuous ogive is the culpret. If you look at the bullet, the straigh wall bearing surface is only about 1/3 the lenght of the bullet. I know they fit very tight, but you also have almost .100" of plastic (petals almost .050" thick) in the .45 caliber bore. The 1:20 twist is also very aggressive on the sabot, and since only about 1/3 of the bullet is making contact, the rifling strips the sabot. I feel this makes the 200 FTX very nose heavy and the front of the bullet does not settle down and actually wobbles going down the tube. (Think of a football that is thrown with a perfect spiral, then think of one that the nose is wobbling as it rotates.) With the all lead PR Bullets, the lead obturates into the sabot filling the cup, and even grows wings between the petals. Just looking at the targets will show this. Of course this is just my theory, so take it for what it is worth.


Now look at this pic of some bullets and you will see the Barnes 295 gr and 200 gr SST have a 1/2 to 2/3 straight wall and even the all lead White Power Star on the right. Then look at the 200 gr .358" FTX and you will see the straight wall is only about 1/3 the lenght of the bullet.

L-R; Hornady 155 gr XTP (.400"), Hornady 180 gr XTP (.400"), Barnes 195 gr ExpanderMZ (.400"), Hornady 200 gr SST (.400"), Hornady 200 gr FTX (.358"), and far right the White 350 gr PowerStar (.400")

Here are a couple of my best groups with the .358" FTX. 1:20 Knight, 100 yards.

Here was some initial testing with OPEN SIGHTS, at only 50 yards, and the last one at 100.

Other testing with assorted bullets at 50 yards with OPEN SIGHTS.

Scope mounted, making scope adjustments between groups, but crooked bases ran out of Right scope adjustment.

Switched bases from fron to back with enough Right adjustment, making adjustments between groups.

1:30 twist Knight before fixing crappy crown.

After fixing crown, and first attempt with the .358" FTX. The target says it all!

Other bullets the same day, crown fixed.

White M-98 Elite Hunter, 1:20 twist, .358" FTX.

 

[TJJ]

Very nice report Busta. Looks like you've been busy, or just savin up. I gonna keep a lookout for a .45 this year. Then no more ML's. :stretch:

 

[k]

Very nice report Busta. Looks like you've been busy, or just savin up. I gonna keep a lookout for a .45 this year. Then no more ML'
s. :stretch:

said the same thing myself,about 4 to 5 ML's ago :lol:

 

[k]

very nice post(as usual)busta.have you tried any .357 180gr xtp's out of your 1/20 twist?

 

[Busta]

very nice post(as usual)busta.have you tried any .357 180gr xtp's out of your 1/20 twist?

k,

I have not shot any sub .400" bullets, other than the .358" FTX. I think those .357's might just work, the .400's don't shoot too bad with lower powder charges (80 gr BH209).

Like GM54-120 said, I too wish that MMP made a magnum sub-base for the .45 calibers. The jacketed bullets seem to like to punch through the PR/MMP orange sabots once the barrel warms up a little.

 

[GM54-120]

I might just use the 358 FTX and Pro Hunters for my 35Rem and try the other 35x weights. Unfortunately i cant find any cheap plated 357 180s but i did find 1 or 2 hardcast.

The only options for a 45 sub base are the fiber/felt combos but they offer only slight protection. 410 shotshell bases are too small i think. Some guys use modded 28gauge ones for 50cals. They are damn tight though.

Sofar mine likes the Hornady 200gr SST with the tan sabot and 80-100gr of BH209. Actually the tan sabots have been the best with all the 40cal bullets. A local gun shop sells them for under $6. None of the large local stores carry any loose 45 sabots.

They also carry a wide variety of Rainier and Frontier plated bullets but only upto 180gr in 40cal. 200gr 40s are rare around here except the SSTs with sabots. Sofar Hornady wont sell them separately but they do with almost all the 44-50cal SST/FTX bullets.

Looks like 40cal plated are going to be the best bang for the buck. Spending over 15 cent for just a plinking bullet is outrageous. I was mainly hoping i could come up with a load from components i already have on hand. I got the 9mm 147gr XTP BB for only $15.99/100 and my 9mm carbine loves them.

I still want to give these a try with a mild 60gr load mainly because they fit the sabot very well. All the others flair the petals out on the sabot much more. These orange sabots sure appear to be intended for use with a BT or beveled base bullet. None of my 40/45 sabots flair the petals out like the 357/45s do. I did find a hardcast 356 160gr with a slight beveled base. IMO though, the lube on many hardcast can cause sabot/bullet separation problems. Thats why im looking mostly at plated bullets.

Thank you for the info and pics. They are very helpful and gave me a few other ideas.