209 primer fouling-just an opinion..

[anatone hunter]

I am a couple days short of being 80 years old. (Yuk).. But, along with that have gone lots of fun shooting experiences with flintlocks, percussion sidelocks and some inclines using number 11 caps and or musket caps., black powder and Tripple 7. Just recently I aquired a nice Accura V2 with my committment to use Blackhorn powder. So-- I read all I could about proper breech plugs (yes I have the Blackhorn style plug in the Accura), 209 primer varieties, shimes etc etc.
I had a chance to go to the range the other day and in short order tested just 3 shots to verify correct shim with the primers I intend to use. And yes, I am using the mostly recommended primer for Blackhorn-the CCI magnum 209. After the 3 shots I came home to do the usual clean up procedure suggested by Blackhorn users etc. What shocked me when I used the 1/8th inch hand twisted drill in the flash channel was the amount of fowling! Just after 3 shots there was quite a bit of crud in there. And I found it more unpleasent cleaning that breech plug than the doing the old cleanup procedure with black powder or Tripple 7.
So--it appears as so many have said-yep those 209 primers do create lots of fouling! And for sure I am going to think seriously about the conversion to large rifle magnum powders instead of 209.s (Even after scoring a thousand CCI M primers the other day..) Of course the downside to that conversion is that there aint no rifle primers for sale in the world! LOL
Now I say all this just as a personal reaction. Not trying to change anyones mind at all about what or how to use. Just seems that this 209 and Blackhorn powder thing is not the ulimate choice for some of us old guys... Large rifle magnum primer conversion maybe???
Happy New Year to All.
J.R.

 

[eekjellander]

I am a couple days short of being 80 years old. (Yuk).. But, along with that have gone lots of fun shooting experiences with flintlocks, percussion sidelocks and some inclines using number 11 caps and or musket caps., black powder and Tripple 7. Just recently I aquired a nice Accura V2 with my committment to use Blackhorn powder. So-- I read all I could about proper breech plugs (yes I have the Blackhorn style plug in the Accura), 209 primer varieties, shimes etc etc.
I had a chance to go to the range the other day and in short order tested just 3 shots to verify correct shim with the primers I intend to use. And yes, I am using the mostly recommended primer for Blackhorn-the CCI magnum 209. After the 3 shots I came home to do the usual clean up procedure suggested by Blackhorn users etc. What shocked me when I used the 1/8th inch hand twisted drill in the flash channel was the amount of fowling! Just after 3 shots there was quite a bit of crud in there. And I found it more unpleasent cleaning that breech plug than the doing the old cleanup procedure with black powder or Tripple 7.
So--it appears as so many have said-yep those 209 primers do create lots of fouling! And for sure I am going to think seriously about the conversion to large rifle magnum powders instead of 209.s (Even after scoring a thousand CCI M primers the other day..) Of course the downside to that conversion is that there aint no rifle primers for sale in the world! LOL
Now I say all this just as a personal reaction. Not trying to change anyones mind at all about what or how to use. Just seems that this 209 and Blackhorn powder thing is not the ulimate choice for some of us old guys... Large rifle magnum primer conversion maybe???
Happy New Year to All.
J.R.

I use CCI 209 primers cause I got lots and they work in side locks with Mag Spark and in line pistol (CVA Optima) and with those little o rings mentioned in forum pistol clean up is nothing /Ed

 

[MrTom]

Congrats on the age milestone.

Primers sold as "muzzle loader" primers shoot somewhat cooler than shot shell reloading primers and may offer less cleaning issues in the flash channel; however, if using Blackhorn powder you may see hang fires or dud fires when using the cooler primers. I think there have been some that indicated the cooler primers seemed to foul a little less. Some here may add here that they use pin vises or make bit holders from dowel rod to help hold the bits while boring that carbon out. I'm not a T7 shooter much anymore but I think you'll see as much plug fouling using it as with the 209 powder when using 209 primers.

 

[mnoland30]

I've shot a Kahnke .50 with 777 & #11 caps for years, and find it much easier to clean than my Accura .45 using BH 209.

 

[MrTom]

I know the #11 caps shoot with clean plugs with T7. Some here have suggested its the higher heat level of the 209 primers that foul the plugs, even the cool ones. I wonder if its maybe caused by more of the priming material inside the primers that causes it. Or maybe its because the fire carrying the burning priming compound of a primer gets restricted at the flame hole and the deposit occurs. I've never seen a crud ring with T7 using #11 caps or even musket caps....granular powder or the pellets.

 

[MSalyards]

I have 1 rifle that I shoot the substitute's in. I tried T7 and yes it sucked when it came to the crud ring using both #11's and muskets. I switched to pyrodex select and never looked back.

 

[anatone hunter]

Interesting feed back guys. Thanks. I hope someone will chime in that has switched to the conversion that uses large rifle primers. I am going to try the one from Arrowhead as it looks to be the most "advanced". The issue there is that I cannot find a source that has the primers! Oh well.
I have lots of CCI 209 M primers and the Blackhorn breech plug and I would like to test that along side the rifle primer to see if there is really much difference. How about it. Anyone care to add their results after switchng to rifle primers?

 

[WV Hunter]

Clean up is alot easier if you soak the BP a bit prior to drilling. I remove my plug and drop in a pill bottle of windex w/ammonia. I clean the rifle, and then go back to the plug and its a breeze. It is amazing how much fouling occurs, and more amazing is how hard it is.
The CC 209M are great... I use W209's personally. As mentioned stay away from the T7 or other weaker 209's when using BH209. I have never seen the need to try rifle primers, though I know some on here have done that.

 

[snapbang]

I did some shooting today with T7 and w209s. There certainly is a crud ring. With a windex soaked patch its removed in seconds. I will say I believe if you don't remove it between shots it almost has to have an affect on accuracy. I think the sabot will not seat properly of get compress on the crud ring. With all that said I was able to shoot nice groups today. I intend to swab between shots anyway so T7 works great for me. I have 2 bottles of Blackhorn 209 Ill probably never use.

 

[ENCORE50A]

.................... I am going to try the one from Arrowhead as it looks to be the most "advanced". The issue there is that I cannot find a source that has the primers!....................

I did not switch from 209's to the Arrowhead module system. However................. the Arrowhead module system is perfection and ignites BH209 without issue or question.
Trust me, I've shot a lot of BH with modules. The LRMP's are not necessary and just the LRP's will ignite BH. The system Luke has is perfect.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Ive got an LRP direct ignition setup from Hankins for my Accura. Ive use it in my Optima pistol too. Ive used LRMP and LRPs in it but saw no dif in performance. It is a little more werk to swap primers but almost nothing to cleaning it. The BH209 breech plug from Lehigh, with an oring put down in the primer pocket works almost as well and has near zero blow by. I use windex or just cleaning ammonia to soak the plug for a few minutes then steam clean it with a handheld steam cleaner. IMHO, the money for the LRP system was not worth it, for me. Especially now that primers are being made of Unobtainium.

 

[shiner200gr]

Your experience could have been written by me. I converted to the 209 primer option at much time and expense. After the first range session I UNconverted back to musket caps. Life is too short to be spending it on cleaning my breech, trigger, firing pin assembly, and the bottom of my scope.

I am a couple days short of being 80 years old. (Yuk).. But, along with that have gone lots of fun shooting experiences with flintlocks, percussion sidelocks and some inclines using number 11 caps and or musket caps., black powder and Tripple 7. Just recently I aquired a nice Accura V2 with my committment to use Blackhorn powder. So-- I read all I could about proper breech plugs (yes I have the Blackhorn style plug in the Accura), 209 primer varieties, shimes etc etc.
I had a chance to go to the range the other day and in short order tested just 3 shots to verify correct shim with the primers I intend to use. And yes, I am using the mostly recommended primer for Blackhorn-the CCI magnum 209. After the 3 shots I came home to do the usual clean up procedure suggested by Blackhorn users etc. What shocked me when I used the 1/8th inch hand twisted drill in the flash channel was the amount of fowling! Just after 3 shots there was quite a bit of crud in there. And I found it more unpleasent cleaning that breech plug than the doing the old cleanup procedure with black powder or Tripple 7.
So--it appears as so many have said-yep those 209 primers do create lots of fouling! And for sure I am going to think seriously about the conversion to large rifle magnum powders instead of 209.s (Even after scoring a thousand CCI M primers the other day..) Of course the downside to that conversion is that there aint no rifle primers for sale in the world! LOL
Now I say all this just as a personal reaction. Not trying to change anyones mind at all about what or how to use. Just seems that this 209 and Blackhorn powder thing is not the ulimate choice for some of us old guys... Large rifle magnum primer conversion maybe???
Happy New Year to All.
J.R.

 

[anatone hunter]

HA. I chuckled at the words "unobtanium" and UNconverted.!
Anyway,--thanks again for feedback guys. I will try the Windex or ammonia for breech plug cleaning and see if it works better than the Hoppes approach. Also will give more time for soaking before the final clean up.
As long as rifle primers are not available-and the fact that I have a thousand CCI m 209 s, it sure makes sense to just adapt and learn to accept the characteristtics of the Blackhorn, 209 primer system. BUT--if primers do become available, I still would like to compare with the 209 results. No complaints for sure as all of this "testing and experince is all fun! Back to the range soon..
Cheers
J.R.