CVA Accura Price Question

[Hunter8282]

Is a brand new CVA? Accura? Stainless/Black Thumbhole .50 Rifle for $320 a good deal?

 

[frontier gander]

great deal. However, i recommend that you check out cabelas website and look at the new cva optima with the finger removable breech plug for $250 with stainless steel barrel.

 

[Hunter8282]

OK that deal was at cabela's also. I'll look at the Optima. How come the Accura doesn't have a finger removable BP?

I am assuming I can shoot BH 209 in either of these correct?

 

[frontier gander]

coming out in May of this year is the Accura V2 with the finger removable breech plug, supposed to start at 399 and go up to 499 depending on what model you want.

bh209 will work with all the new break action cva's.

 

[Lee 9]

Ther are a lot of guns that have problems with Blackhorn, the TC line is the only ones that will as a group and then only from the Omega newer. You need to check on the exact model of CVA if you chose them. Some can be helped by modifying the breach plug, an efficent breach plug is needed to be 100% reliable with Blackhorn as it is as hard to iignite as smokeless. Lee

 

[sabotloader]

Hunter8282

If you were to call Don @ Western Powders he would indicate to you there is a minor problem with the CVA breech plugs and BH 209. According to Western Powders some modification will need to be made in the current design to be consistent. The 'flash channel' and the 'flash hole' are smaller than Western thinks is needed to 100% effective shooting BH.

However, if you go against Western's recommendation of a Federal 209A or a CCI-209M and use a primer just a bit cooler in it like a Remington STS or a Cheddite 209 - it will probably shoot great....

 

[Hunter8282]

I definitely want to shoot BH 209 and don't want to do any modifications. Should I just stay with the TC line up then? Either Omega or Triumph?

 

[sabotloader]

Hunter8282

I definitely want to shoot BH 209 and don't want to do any modifications. Should I just stay with the TC line up then? Either Omega or Triumph?

I do not own and have not shot a new CVA, but if you want one and you are willing to go down in primer strength a bit I think it will shoot BH just fine - I am just not sure about the really cold weather variable. You could call Western and talk to Don and see what his suggestion might be. The other thing like FG said a new one is coming out and they may have addressed the problem with that new breech plug.

I do have both the Triumph and the Omega and they will both shoot BH with Western's recommended primers. The Omega is one of my favorites but it is not as clean as the Triumph. The speed breech is a marvelous invention... and not becuase you do do not need tools but in the way that is it is built. There really (IMO) not much of a comparison between it and what CVA calls tooless breech plug.

 

[frontier gander]

you'll be fine with bh209. You need a tight fitting sabot for bh209 to work properly. Plus the right drill bit to clean the Breech plug. It needs no modding! Just like all things, keep it clean and its going to perform. Underclocked here has had a few accuras + an Apex and i dont believe hes ever had an issue with bh209 in any of them.

 

[sabotloader]

Hunter8282

Copied from another post - just for your information

I too have found that the Omega is 100% reliable with BH209. My Accura hasn't been. Thus i been thinkin'.

I ordered vent liners from Lehigh on the 7th, and had hopes they would have arrived here today, but they didn't. In anticipation of their arrival, i started the work on the breech plug of my Accura toward making it more like the Omega breech plug.

The plug on the left is a brand new Accura plug, the one in the middle is an Accura plug that has seen many shots, modified to accept a vent liner, and the plug on the right is an Omega plug. The modified Accura plug should closely resemble the Omega plug once the vent liner is installed.

Now, when the vent liners arrive here, i imagine the modified plug may require a little more work to be just right, then it will be off to the range.

A second discussion..

paia wrote:
..................................In your top pic, the middle plug started out like the left plug?..................................



Yes it did.

I wouldn't say BH209 hasn't worked out well in the Accura. It has killed several deer so far this season. The thing is, when one compare the results of using BH209 in the Accura with the results in the Omega, one realizes the Omega does it perfectly, whereas, the Accura has had a misfire, and a few hangfire.

It was my opinion, the reason for the success with the Omega was because the breech plug has a deep concavity, whereas, the Accura doesn't. However, maybe it is more due to the shorter fire channel in the Omega. Maybe there is another reason none of us can see. I haven't tried my Triumph yet, but most say it works well with BH209, and it has a very long fire channel.

What i could have done was tried some magnum primer in the Accura, and seen if that brought 100% reliability. I may do that, or i may not. The W209 primer is 100% reliable in the Omega; why can't it be so in the Accura?

I wish the vent liners i have on order would get here yesterday!

and a third

I have 2 rifles with what appear to be the same BP. Both my Accura 45 and my Win Apex 50. Neither has ever failed to fire or hang fired using BH209 and 3 different primers. CCI209, CCI209M and Win209 primers have all been 100% and spontaneous ignition.

The primer side (pocket) of the Accura 45 is almost spotless even after 20 rounds and Win209 primers. The Win Apex gets dirty quick and has a new BP. It got dirty with the original too. Obviously it is getting more blowby into the action than the 45.

A 45 with the same 100gr charge as a 50cal should generate even more pressure so i find it a bit odd considering it appears to be the same BP as the Accura 50 and Win Apex 50.

The only other thing i can think of is that i almost never exceed 100gr charges. CVA rates their guns for 100grs of loose as max. I would wager many people exceed this recommendation and get more blow back/carbon into the flash channel.

My Ovation 50 does have a vent liner although they dont call it by that name. I have fired many heavy charges with it. The BP is even totally exposed but primers are almost always spotless when i remove them. Its also has never failed to fire in any way. Primers can be a bit hard to remove though because of the firing pin system gets tight against the primer after a heavy charge.

I really do like the idea of adding the Lehigh vent liner though. It looks like a very well made product. It might be just what my Win Apex 50 needs to shoot "as cleanly" as my Accura 45.

BTW according to Dan at Ramshot .032-.036 is the optimal size for the flash hole and has anyone tried a small wrap of Teflon tape on the primer. Creating a tighter seal in that area should "in theory" help also.

Great thread too, i enjoy the technical side sometimes. Love seeing new ideas. Adding a convex liner to a concave BP makes lots of sense. Seems like the best of getting both good ignition and reducing blowby.

 

[frontier gander]

you saying that a tc or anything else will fire bh209 off 100% of the time without an issue?

Accura's fine with bh209. Thousands of shooters with them and 3 posts with some questions?

that last post by the way said he never had a hangfire or anything with bh209 in his .45 accura.

 

[quigley]

Hunter8282

If you were to call Don @ Western Powders he would indicate to you there is a minor problem with the CVA breech plugs and BH 209. According to Western Powders some modification will need to be made in the current design to be consistent. The 'flash channel' and the 'flash hole' are smaller than Western thinks is needed to 100% effective shooting BH.

However, if you go against Western's recommendation of a Federal 209A or a CCI-209M and use a primer just a bit cooler in it like a Remington STS or a Cheddite 209 - it will probably shoot great....

Would you not need a hotter primer to lite BH209 instead of a cooler one?

 

[quigley]

Is a brand new CVA? Accura? Stainless/Black Thumbhole .50 Rifle for $320 a good deal?

The SS Black one was $289.00. They have free shipping often. That is a great deal. Even if they come out with a new Accura you cant beat that price for a great gun. I have the Accura and a new Triumph. That Accura feels so much better on my shoulder than the TC. I havent got to shoot the CVA yet. Just had it a week. Im going to pack it with BH209 and try some 300g Hornady XTP in a mmp black sabot to start off.

 

[sabotloader]

quigley

Would you not need a hotter primer to lite BH209 instead of a cooler one?

The problem with the two hot primers is that they put out such a volume of gas and flash in an instant - it does create a clogging problem if the diameters of the channels are not correct.

Western Powders - will only recommend the Federal 209A and/or the CCI-209M primers. These are the two hottest primerson the market. I personally believe that BH can be reliably ignited with a lesser primer. But, you will not move Western of their recommendation.

It is my understanding the problem with the CVA BP according to the Western folks, is the 3mm 'flash channel' and the .030 'Flash hole' are too small and readily clog up. On occasion and not always you will get 'hang fires' because these two channels are small and do not handle the volume of gas coming from the two hottest primers. In my case using a Remington Nipple which presents about the same diameters - using a Remington STS primer or a Cheddite primer, both of which provide just a bit less volume of gas, fire BH without a problem. I am just not sure of their operation in the colder sub-freezing temperatures. And conversly when I use a Fed or CCI-209m I often do get slight hangfires no matter how clean the nipple/BP is or how tight I have compressed the powder.

 

[frontier gander]

Hunter, heres the new V2 Accura,

Also the Optima,

They even redesigned the Wolf, added an adjustable stock and even the new finger removable breech plug.

 

[quigley]

quigley

Would you not need a hotter primer to lite BH209 instead of a cooler one?

The problem with the two hot primers is that they put out such a volume of gas and flash in an instant - it does create a clogging problem if the diameters of the channels are not correct.

Western Powders - will only recommend the Federal 209A and/or the CCI-209M primers. These are the two hottest primerson the market. I personally believe that BH can be reliably ignited with a lesser primer. But, you will not move Western of their recommendation.

It is my understanding the problem with the CVA BP according to the Western folks, is the 3mm 'flash channel' and the .030 'Flash hole' are too small and readily clog up. On occasion and not always you will get 'hang fires' because these two channels are small and do not handle the volume of gas coming from the two hottest primers. In my case using a Remington Nipple which presents about the same diameters - using a Remington STS primer or a Cheddite primer, both of which provide just a bit less volume of gas, fire BH without a problem. I am just not sure of their operation in the colder sub-freezing temperatures. And conversly when I use a Fed or CCI-209m I often do get slight hangfires no matter how clean the nipple/BP is or how tight I have compressed the powder.

How does the Winchester W209 do with BH209?

 

[sabotloader]

quigley

Here is a pressure chart of some various primers...

Shotgun Primers

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.

Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML......244 f.p.s.

Remington 209 Kleanbore ML .........318 f.p.s.

Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.

Remington STS.............................338 f.p.s.

Std. Remington No. 209 ................341 f.p.s.

Cheddite No. 209 .........................347 f.p.s.

CCI 209M.....................................379 f.p.s.

Federal No. 209A ..........................381 f.p.s.



Rifle/Pistol Primers

Winchester WSP "Small Pistol" ?.......116 f.p.s.

Winchester WSR "Small Rifle" ..........143 f.p.s


A regular Winchester is back up the list a ways - but in a restricted BP it might work just fine. I know there are people using them. In a non-restricted BP they may not get hot enough to do he job consistently.

You can see where my Cheddites rest and the regular Win is not that far off... but again you will never get Western to agree.

If you have an Accura - Optima or any in that series and you have some BH - I would suggest you try it... I for one would be interested.

 

[quigley]

Hunter, heres the new V2 Accura,

Also the Optima,

They even redesigned the Wolf, added an adjustable stock and even the new finger removable breech plug.

Hey FG, that pic of the V2 aint loading on my PC. Whered you find it at? Like to see it?

 

[frontier gander]

shoot, i dunno what the heck the deal is with that picture. Got it in an email along with some movies of the rifles.

See if this will work,

 

[ronlaughlin]

I definitely want to shoot BH 209 and don't want to do any modifications. Should I just stay with the TC line up then? Either Omega or Triumph?

This Accura is an inexpensive rifle that is very straight shooting, and most of the time ignites BH209. It is more accurate than most of the rifles i have owned in my life. Actually, i can only think of one rifle i have owned that could compete, which was a 25/06 Ruger that i purchased from a Montana cowboy. It was abused, and beat up, and ugly, but my my, such a shooter.

I have experienced a misfire, and a few hang fire with my Accura, but mostly it shoots great. I am hoping for 100% reliability by modifying the breech plug so it is more like the TC Omega breech plug.