savage questions??

[cummins cowboy]

today I finally got to check out a savage muzzleloader at cabelas today, I have been shooting an Austin & halleck, and have been thinking about going with a savage so I have a few questions, the breach plug looks like it fits way back up under the front ring of the action,

is cleaning blow back out of this area make it more difficult to clean??

also it looks like you slip the 209 primer onto a little holder that is on the bolt, it almost looks like a reloading shell holder, so if one carries the gun with the bolt open like say on a 4 wheeler does this hold the primer well enough to keep it from falling out while being jarred around??

why in the world did they make taking the bolt out require loosening an action screw?? why not the same setup the CF guns use. that to me looks like the biggest drawback of the whole gun.

 

[big6x6]

today I finally got to check out a savage muzzleloader at cabelas today, I have been shooting an Austin & halleck, and have been thinking about going with a savage so I have a few questions, the breach plug looks like it fits way back up under the front ring of the action,

is cleaning blow back out of this area make it more difficult to clean??

also it looks like you slip the 209 primer onto a little holder that is on the bolt, it almost looks like a reloading shell holder, so if one carries the gun with the bolt open like say on a 4 wheeler does this hold the primer well enough to keep it from falling out while being jarred around??

why in the world did they make taking the bolt out require loosening an action screw?? why not the same setup the CF guns use. that to me looks like the biggest drawback of the whole gun.

There really is ZERO blowback with the 10ML...ZERO...

The primer carrier is on the bolt.... I would not carry the gun with the bolt open. Remove the primer and close the bolt... When ready to hunt/shoot, open the bolt and add primer and close the bolt...

Loosening the action screw to remove the bolt IS a crazy way to do things... The key word here is LOOSEN... I LOOSEN the REAR action screw enough to remove the bolt...tighten up when done. FRONT action screw stays in place.

 

[cummins cowboy]

lets sat you wanted to carry the gun with the bolt open and a primer in place, would it fall off without the bolt being closed??

 

[big6x6]

lets sat you wanted to carry the gun with the bolt open and a primer in place, would it fall off without the bolt being closed??

It COULD but I've never tried it...

 

[Grouse]

lets sat you wanted to carry the gun with the bolt open and a primer in place, would it fall off without the bolt being closed??

Yes it would fall off if bounced around. No reason to leave it that way anyway. After a couple tweeks you would be extremely happy with a savage. I would look at the new Knight coming out and the Triumph for shooting BH209.

 

[sabotloader]

Probably off base a bit here since we are talking Savage

I know a lot of people do not like the second safety on the Knight, but that is exactly why I like it. I can drop the DEx on the 4wheeler - bolt closed and run the second safety in and it is relativly safe or even doing the same if I am accending or decending some ruff terrain.

I certainly do not use it often but it is there when I THINK I need it..

 

[Grouse]

Probably off base a bit here since we are talking Savage

I know a lot of people do not like the second safety on the Knight, but that is exactly why I like it. I can drop the DEx on the 4wheeler - bolt closed and run the second safety in and it is relativly safe or even doing the same if I am accending or decending some ruff terrain.

I certainly do not use it often but it is there when I THINK I need it..

Yep, it's that simple.

 

[paia]

The Savage breech plug IS way up in the action and the rifle would be a royal pain to clean if you are shooting Pyrodex or 777 IMO, and worried about corrosion. I would not recommend the Savage for those powders.

The Savage is made for smokeless and with that it works great--when you remove the breech plug, cleaning the barrel and action is basically like cleaning the barrel and action of any centerfire rifle. Smokeless is noncorrosive so I don't worry about getting every bit of the rifle spotless like I do when cleaning my traditional ML's after shooting black powder.

The Savage would work well with Blackhorn209 too.

Loosening the action screw to remove the bolt is a pain. I made a little ratcheting "socket" that removes the BP without removing the bolt. BTW, QD scope mounts from Leupold or Warne are worth every penny for cleaning this rifle IMO.

 

[cummins cowboy]

does anyone have an idea of why the gun was made without a bolt release?? it seems like loosening an action screw is pretty crude way of doing things, I guess I am looking for a clear advantage over my austin & halleck.

what is the story about the breach plug, I hear a few different things, on one hand I hear that someone makes something that makes the breach plug maintenance free, then I hear someone else say the breach plug needs cleaning after 25 shots, why can't the breach plug just be like any other breach plug??

on my A&H I use teflon tape and grease, is this necessary on a savage, sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to prove to myself this is really going to be an upgrade

 

[minst7877]

I have shot Trip7 out of my Savage ML II do to the laws in the state that I hunt and live in. The gun can be cleaned basically just like any other in-line muzzy. Mine has now had a third pillar installed along with a thumb screw to make bolt removal simple. Here is a pic of a tool that I made that allowed me to remove the breech plug without removing the bolt. These are all 1/4 inch drive componets.

I don't see why you couldn't just use a 3/8 socket in place of the modified socket on the new plug design.

DC

 

[paia]

If you want to shoot smokeless and reach velocities of 2300 fps or more, easily with 250 to 300 grn bullets and want to try and push the limits of long range shooting with a ML while deer hunting, the Savage is an "upgrade" from the A&H.

If you want to kill deer from 50 to 150 yards like most folks do, stick with the A&H--it's a lovely rifle.

The Savage with smokeless is much less maintenance. The Savage breech plug is no big deal. Smokeless and hot 209 primers do carbon it up, but it cleans up easy enough. Smokeless powder is much hotter and wears the "Vent" (or flash hole) on the Savage BP after 50 to 80 shots. I check my vent liners every 25 shots or so and change them when I can push a .035" welding wire through--factory vents start at around .031" I think. Vent liners are separate, screw in pieces to the breech plug that are easily replaced and cost about three bucks.

Try going to the Savage web site and downloading the 10MLII owner's manual and look at it. The Savage breech plug is actually pretty ingenious.

I'll add that my Savage BP with smokeless cleans up easier than my T/C Omega BP when I shoot Blackhorn209 in it.

I like my Savage and shoot it a good bit, but it is heavy and not a quick handling gun. I hunt with my Omegas because I walk a lot and do a good bit of deer driving with friends. If you have a sturdy stand and a rest and have a legitimate chance at 200+ yd shots, the Savage may be right for you.

Go take a look a look at Randy Wakeman's site. He has a boat load of info and articles on the Savage. Most were helpful to me, but remember, a lot of the info is just his opinion and I certainly don't agree with everything he says at all. Keep researching and make up your own mind. Have fun.

 

[younghunter_86]

I like my Savage and shoot it a good bit, but it is heavy and not a quick handling gun. I hunt with my Omegas because I walk a lot and do a good bit of deer driving with friends. If you have a sturdy stand and a rest and have a legitimate chance at 200+ yd shots, the Savage may be right for you.

That's why you need both! :wink:

 

[big6x6]

Thanks for paia and minst7877 for two well thought-out posts!

:applause:


Safety, bolt, primers, Savage....

Here's what I do...When I am traveling to and fro and not hunting I open the bolt, take out the primer and close the bolt. I ALWAYS(at least TRY to!) keep 5 or 6 primers loose in my pants pocket or front shirt pocket. I can QUICKLY open the bolt and load a primer. ALSO...Keep in mind that the 10ML had a 3-position tang safety...FIRE....SAFE BUT BOLT WILL OPEN....SAFE BOLT IS LOCKED...

 

[Grouse]

I'll add that my Savage BP with smokeless cleans up easier than my T/C Omega BP when I shoot Blackhorn209 in it.

Thats a compliment to BH209. Your Smokeless powder plug cleans up easier then your Omega plug with BH209. That's awesome we can compare BH209 to Smokeless powder to some extent. I agree with what you said. Your post was excellant, good job.