T/C letter writing campaign for inline conical shooter

[txhunter58]

I have only good things to say about T/C in quality and customer service, EXCEPT where it comes to them building an inline with a closed breech that will shoot a conical!!

Here is a letter I wrote them. If enough of us contact them, maybe we can get something done?

"Does T/C have any plans to come out with an inline with a closed breech that will shoot conicals well? I own an Omega, but will not buy another T/C unless they are designed for full bore conicals.

I must confess that I only hunt Colorado and Texas, but even though I can use sabots in Texas, I stick with conicals to reduce overall expense and room in my possibles boxes. I know of lots of other guys who are in the same boat. From what I know, if you did come out with such a gun, there would definately be a market. And there is an increasing supply of new, premium conical bullets ( Hornady FPB and Thor bullets to name two).

Obviously, to do that, you would have to either lose the QLA, or make it better.

Why not simply come out with an Omega/Triumph... version that you don't cut the QLA. Seems cheap enough to try. I really think you would be surprised at the market. I love the quality of your products as well as your outstanding customer service, but won't be buying another one until this problem is addressed."

 

[GM54-120]

How does their QLA differ from say a....CVA Accura? It also has a false muzzle that is supposed to aid in loading sabots but mine shoots conicals pretty well. The first 1/2"+ has no rifling and is over bore sized. Im assuming to help align the projectile before using the ball starter.

My Ovation and Knights dont have this and are not much/if any harder to load with the exception of a tight bore situation on the Ovation or a tight sabot combination.

I havent owned a TC muzzle loader in over 20 years so my question is quite sincere and i really dont know other than reviews ive read.

 

[txhunter58]

Not sure, maybe it is the length ( 1 inch)? Rumor is that the quality control on making the T/C QLA is not precise enough and that if they made them better, it would be fine.

I just know that when I shoot a no exuces 460 gr bullet, known for accuracy, I get 5 to 8 inch groups at 25 yards. Some go through the target sideways. That can't just be how the riflings are cut or rate of twist. What I have heard that makes sense to me is that the QLA, when slightly offcenter, will allow gasses to kick the bullet sideways. Same as if a gun is not crowned well?

Don't know that anyone knows for sure, but I seem to recall a guy who cut his off and accuracy with conicals improved.

 

[GM54-120]

OK that makes sense. It may not be the QLA itself but the quality/or way in which it was cut.

 

[frontier gander]

ive seen a few tc's at a number of stores where you could see the QLA was off center just with the naked eye. One part of the qla was even with the rifling and the other was well above the rifling.

I remember one guy on another forum that had a new tc encore, his wouldnt shoot conicals for nothing, He chopped the QLA off and still nothing, said it slightly improves the accuracy. He sent it in and they called back telling him that he needed the over sized pin, they replaced the lock up springs because they were to weak and then to add to the list, his forearm had micro cracks running throughout the forearm near the barrel lug section. This was a new rifle keep in mind. One they did the work and replaced the barrel, he said everything was fine. Something like 5" groups @ 100 yards with open sights.

I think their QLA is 3/4" long VS CVA/Traditions 3/8" QLA.

After i cut/crowned that cva blazers barrel, its no harder to load than it is my Accura with the QLA.

 

[GM54-120]

Does the issue seem worse with hollow or concave based conicals vs flat based? I normally prefer flat based but the last ones from PR had just a shallow "cup" and shot awesome in 2 different brand guns.

Ive read about similar issues with ML guns that are ported but those can even have a big impact on sabots also. Im tempted to cut down my Ovation and add a muzzlebrake but not if its going to hurt accuracy. Most of the high dollar smokeless ML customs use them without any issues.

BTW i think that would be a great idea if TC offered the QLA/nonQLA as a free option since it shouldnt effect costs much at all.

 

[txhunter58]

The flat based bullets are the ones that my Omega will not shoot. It shoots "cup" based bullets pretty well (powerbelts, FPBs and Thors)

 

[frontier gander]

a muzzy brake? Ahhhh you'll get made fun of fer havin all them holes at the end of yer barrel!

 

[GM54-120]

a muzzy brake? Ahhhh you'll get made fun of fer havin all them holes at the end of yer barrel!

As ugly as it is already, i wouldn't care.

Its a hard kicker for some reason and with 110gr/.458 325gr FTXs its plain brutal. :lol: The 1-24 twist seems to make it prefer heavier bullets so that what i shoot in it usually. Although it shot my 45-250gr GoldDot youth load very well.

Its still by far the best $99 i ever spent on any new gun.

Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[Batchief909]

Eliminate the QLA and slug your bores to find the proper sized bullet/conical.

 

[GM54-120]

The flat based bullets are the ones that my Omega will not shoot. It shoots "cup" based bullets pretty well (powerbelts, FPBs and Thors)

Try the PR Ultimate QTs if you get a chance. Im not sure if they offer a QT version for 50s but the cup based 45-360gr is suuuuweeeet. I bought some just to get free shipping on their vent liners and was very skeptical until i put 3 in nearly the same hole with both 45cal guns.

Both the Knight and Accura shot them better than any conical ive tried. Granted i havent tried many 45 conicals and would really like to get some 45 Trashcans or other known heavy performers. Hornady stopped making the heavier Great Plain options in both 45 and 50cal so....

Im going to start nagging my caster to start making some slightly cupped based heavy (400gr+) conicals but he is only interested in making 50s to start. If/when i can get some, i want to send them to a few board members with TC QLA guns first for testing.

 

[frontier gander]

my Accura does very well with the PR conicals. i bought package of the 390gr colorado conicals from them and they did 1" @ 100 yards with 80gr American Pioneer. They just are expensive/hard to find locallu so i got a 360gr Lee Minie mold for that kind of shooting

 

[Batchief909]

Finding your bore's diameter and then finding the proper sized conical to fit is the secret. Cupped bases tend to expand more when fired and make up for the sloppyness in the fit. Find a proper sized conical, and match it to your bore. Forget the cupped stuff.... 8)

I've been thru the QLA dilema. You're just gonna waste lead.

 

[txhunter58]

You may be right, but I still am not convinced. What T/C gun are you shooting with a QLA that works with flat based conicals? My brother has a Omega that will shoot most conicals nicely. It seems to be hit or miss with this gun. So just because you have one that shoots conicals well doesn't mean you could get mine to. Do you have one that won't shoot them well unless you have them custom sized?

I must confess that I have not gotten any custom fit conicals, but I have tried no excuses, buffalo bullets, maxiballs, great plains, pr ultimate conicals and a couple of others I can't remember at the moment without success.

And why aren't other guns that picky. I can shoot all of the same bullets I just mentioned in my Knight LRH and they shoot decently. And it has an ever bigger barrel than the Omega so the bullets are looser. I just can't believe that sizing the bullet would take a no excuse from 8 inches at 25 yards and make it accurate.

That said, if I am wrong, I would be estatic because that is somewhat easy to fix.

 

[Okie Hog]

My Encore shoots the 350 grain FPB pretty well. My groups are around 2.50 inches for three shots at 100 meters. That is minute of wild hog so far as i'm concerned.

Before i changed it over to use musket caps my 22" barrel Black Diamond made 1.25-2" groups at 100 meters using the 370 grain Maxi-Ball with a felt wad and 100 grains of 2F Pinnacle.

 

[txhunter58]

Yep, T/C DOES know how to make a conical shooter, but like most of the ones they made that shot conicals, the black diamond (with no QLA) is discontinued!

And my Omega will shoot the FPBs at 2.5-3" at 100 yards with open sights. If that is the only bullet I ever wanted to use, I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[Okie Hog]

My 22" barrel Black Diamond has a QLA and it shoots Maxi-Balls really well. Got to use an over powder wad though.

 

[txhunter58]

Opps, I didn't know that!

Again though, some of them shoot conicals well . My brother and I bought idenical Omegas at the same time and his will and mine won't. I have even tried several different kinds of overpowder wads in my Omega and it did not make that much difference.

 

[Batchief909]

You may be right, but I still am not convinced. What T/C gun are you shooting with a QLA that works with flat based conicals? My brother has a Omega that will shoot most conicals nicely. It seems to be hit or miss with this gun. So just because you have one that shoots conicals well doesn't mean you could get mine to. Do you have one that won't shoot them well unless you have them custom sized?

I must confess that I have not gotten any custom fit conicals, but I have tried no excuses, buffalo bullets, maxiballs, great plains, pr ultimate conicals and a couple of others I can't remember at the moment without success.

And why aren't other guns that picky. I can shoot all of the same bullets I just mentioned in my Knight LRH and they shoot decently. And it has an ever bigger barrel than the Omega so the bullets are looser. I just can't believe that sizing the bullet would take a no excuse from 8 inches at 25 yards and make it accurate.

That said, if I am wrong, I would be estatic because that is somewhat easy to fix.

Are you addressing me?? I haven't found a QLA gun that will shoot conicals, period! Maybe you misunderstood what I was attempting to say. Sorry for any confusion...

 

[txhunter58]

Yep, I did misunderstand you, sorry.

I am curious to see if I get any response to my email to T/C. Will let you know.