Question for you PRB Shooters....

[sabotloader]

It was an excellent day here... Terry is in Kennewick babysitting the grandkids - I was left home alone Terry had left me some guidelines to get done while she was gone (I prefer the word guidlines ot the term 'honeu-do-list') but it was was just to darn nice to stay inside or even do the chores outside that she wanted done. So what-da-think I did...

I drove to Little Boulder Rock Pit hoping I could punch may way in through the snow on the road... success.

It was really even a better day than this pic shows - the rock pit is just over the hill from here.

I spent most of the day shooting PRB's in the Pit. I took both the 54 and the 50 - I even took the 870 in case I got time to pattern the turkey gun.

I went though a lot of RB's but could never really get the performance from the 50 I feel I need... The old 54 was rock solid.

OK - you guys that know what you are doing... Here is a picture of patches I collected....

The top row is .015 Ox-Yoke pre-lubed patches... they held up real well.
The second row is .018 TC pre-lubed Pillow patches - I did not find one of them that looked like it held up at all.
Third row - bore buttons collected from down range - they all look good....

Why are the thinner .015 patches holding up better than the thicker .018 - they both load down the barrel with about equal force. It seemed to me I was all over the place with the .018's.

My goal today was to shoot off-hand at everthing (trying to get ready for the up-coming Rondy events...) I set clay pigeons out on the ground in the snow @ 25 yards and @ 50 yards. Then loaded up and tried to pick them off shooting off-hand. The 25 yard birds were easy with both the 50 and the 54. The 54 handled the 50 yard birds with relative ease also. Wish I could say that got them all with one shot each - didn't happen. The 54 has a tang mounted peep and globe site on the front. The 50 has a 'V' Peep and blade on the front. I really had trouble getting the 50 yard birds with it. I have decided I do not always get the blade centered in the 'V' peep - I am always a little up or a little down + trying to see the target. Decision - I am putting on a Tang peep site tonight or tomorrow. Then I am going to try to get a Glode for it.

Here are the targets... 50 yard Birds...

I became so frustrated with the 50 on the 50 birds - decided to set a target out at 50 and try it - see if it would tel me more.... It did - I suck at shooting open sights off-hand @ 50...

Even with all of my failures - IT WAS A GREAT DAY IN THE PIT and when I got home this afternoon Christmas came early or late - tell you more about that later.

 

[papines]

shooting day

Man what a perfect day. I love that kind of weather. My Dad always was a deer hunter and he would call that a dead one. Good Luck at em' ronde's.

 

[Stompie]

sabotloader:

Is it very difficult to shoot these blackpowder rifles compared to the Omega inline or whatever they are called. Is there a delay in the shot by comparison. Can they be as accurate. Are they even more fun? It certainly looks like a different game to get to terms with. Please excuse all of the questions.

 

[paia]

Are the patches in the pic from the .50? To be honest I do not like how the .015 Ox-Yokes held up either--that torn up one on the right is not a good sign. I assume your bore is smooth with no rough spots or pits?

I like O-Y's pre-lubed patches though, and they are about all I have shot for years.

The T/C Pillow Ticking is a different material and lube (I think?) and that may explain why they did worse despite being thicker.

Are you shooting .490 or .495 balls? I am a big believer in "tight makes right" and shoot balls in my .54 flint that are .535 and use a .020 O-Y Wonder Lube patch. It takes a good whack on the short starter to get them in the bore, but they go down the barrel well with my range rod. And with 80 grains of Swiss they shoot little clover leafs at 50 yds

I would try balls that are just .005 under bore size (if you have not already) and the .015 patches. And I would try .020 O-Y patches. A tight seal should help by not allowing blow by to scorch and tear patches.

I have never been a wad or "bore button" fan. Do you think they really help? I take it you are putting them between the powder and PRB? Just curious.

 

[sabotloader]

paia

Are the patches in the pic from the .50? To be honest I do not like how the .015 Ox-Yokes held up either--that torn up one on the right is not a good sign. I assume your bore is smooth with no rough spots or pits?

Those are all from the 50... Bore in both guns are in very good shape and they are realy smooth.

The T/C Pillow Ticking is a different material and lube (I think?) and that may explain why they did worse despite being thicker.[/qote]

I was wondering the same thing - I just expected the thicker patch to hold up better. And why would the thinner patch show less wear.

Are you shooting .490 or .495 balls? I am a big believer in "tight makes right" and shoot balls in my .54 flint that are .535 and use a .020 O-Y Wonder Lube patch. It takes a good whack on the short starter to get them in the bore, but they go down the barrel well with my range rod. And with 80 grains of Swiss they shoot little clover leafs at 50 yds

I am shooting .490's in the 50 and .530's in the 54... That was one of the reason I was trying the thicker patch to see if tighter might be better. Both of these guns shoot excellently of the bench with rests... Here is the last target shot with the 50 off the bench with .015 patch and .490 RB's

I would try balls that are just .005 under bore size (if you have not already) and the .015 patches. And I would try .020 O-Y patches. A tight seal should help by not allowing blow by to scorch and tear patches.

I will try to pick up some .020 patches and maybe even some .495 RB's but the last time I tried them - hich was the first time I ever shot PRB's they were a bear to get down.

I have never been a wad or "bore button" fan. Do you think they really help? I take it you are putting them between the powder and PRB?

I put the button on top of the powder to help insulate the patch from the T7 powder which is really a hot burning powder.

I am really new to this if you can not tell - I usually use a projectile wrapped in plastic or a full bore conical

 

[sabotloader]

Stompie

Is it very difficult to shoot these blackpowder rifles compared to the Omega inline

I shoot sabots, full bore conicals, and now PRB's from my Renegades. All of them shoot very well. If yu can not tell I am a beginner at the PRB thing though and I am finding out there is a learning curve - but it is a ton of shooting - no matter waht comes out of the bore. It is all recreation and soul soothing for me - except when I do not do well - I am a terrible looser - but I have melloed since I turned 60 anyway that it was the kids I use to coach tell me... "I am not near as hard on the kids I have now as I was on them" - I hear that constantly for old players.

Is there a delay in the shot by comparison. Can they be as accurate. Are they even more fun? It certainly looks like a different game to get to terms with.

No.. they go boom right away just as an inline does... or anyway they should go boom right away. They certainly can be as accurate - there is no doubt about that.

It is a terrible lot of fun but it is a disease....

 

[cayuga]

old pre lubed patches can go bad on you. Are these patches old? The other thing is do they load real easy? If they do it might be gas slipping past the patch and eating them. Try a thicker patch or a bigger ball.

 

[sabotloader]

cayuga

old pre lubed patches can go bad on you. Are these patches old?

They are a year old but have stored in a sealed zip lock + I do put a liquid patch lube on them before shooting.

The other thing is do they load real easy? If they do it might be gas slipping past the patch and eating them.[/quote

It takes two hands and pretty good push to get them down - maybe a little more than most of the sabot that I load...

Try a thicker patch or a bigger ball.

Guess that is the next step... but why is the thicker tighter patch burning up more than the thinner???

 

[cayuga]

If they are loading that hard.. you don't sound like you need a bigger ball. In fact it sounds like a bigger one would be too hard to load. I find it near impossible to load a .535 in my Renegade. But I can shoot them in my Lyman. Maybe I should send you some good patches and lube.. Sometimes changing lube will make all the difference.

 

[cayuga]

If the weather holds... I will go try that load tomorrow in one of my Renegades and in one of my Hawkins. But I will use my patches and lube. Now you have me interested. Although I should do some work around the house now that its warming up.. But then, warm means to shoot too...

 

[sabotloader]

cayuga

Dave I think you are right as I never could get a .535 to load without really pounding it down.

I do not know what I am using for a lube - I bought it from an Old-Timer and a good shooter at one of the Rondy's that I went to last year.... all i can tell is that it blue in color - but him and the group he shoots with swears by it.

How wet/damp should a patch be when it is loaded?

When I loaded the .018 patches you could see the Natural lube squeeze out of the patch as it went by the crown... and even when I loaded the .015's the top of the barrel would have a little moisture on it from the patch sqeezing down through the crown.

Just dropped the bore light down both bores and i would say they are like new - bright and shiny with distinct land... the both shoot bull shops really well if that means anything.

I am shooting to light a load? but remember I am getting 1700 fps from the .490's...

 

[cayuga]

If your getting lube beads, your ball is plenty tight IMO. Maybe a little too moist, but with them blowing the way they are I doubt that too. Your .50 might just like a hotter load and it will come around.

I have a Traditions .50 that unless I shoot 80 grains, it will not hit at all. Another Traditions .50 I have demands 70 grains of Black Powder and nothing else. So it could be something as simple as change powder, lube, or who knows. Maybe that's the charm of these rifles.

 

[sabotloader]

cayuga

Your .50 might just like a hotter load and it will come around

You know maybe you are right... maybe I am not getting enough obturation with that light of charge. I forgot about that action to help seal the bore. That does happen with a round ball doesn't it?

 

[wayles]

renegade

Kick the powder charge up to 80 gr . My .50 renegade likes it hot
Wayles

 

[big6x6]

Hmmmm.

1. In the target of 1/20/09, you were using a .010 patch..490 ball and it was REALLY shooting great. YESTERDAY you used a .490 ball and both .015 and .018 patches. Maybe you were just trying something different?

2. PERSONALLY I think your off-hand target at 50yds YESTERDAY was GOOD! Throw out shot #4 and you are shooting inside 2 inches at 50yds offhand. I can do no better.

3. I too believe that for some reason the .018 T/C patch is leaking gas around it and not sealing. I assume this patch is dry and you use some liquid lube of some sort. Got any Bore Butter? Why don't you put some in a plastic bag and add some Bore Butter and throw them in the microwave for a few seconds until they soak it up?

 

[sabotloader]

big6x6

1. In the target of 1/20/09, you were using a .010 patch..490 ball and it was REALLY shooting great. YESTERDAY you used a .490 ball and both .015 and .018 patches. Maybe you were just trying something different?

Thanks I made note of that - I am headed out for some further testing as soon as I can. I am also mounting a Lyman tang peep sight on it also. Then the reaso I treid the .015 is everybody said it needs to be tight and if you look at those patches I did not really think they were that bad except at the outer edges that cam unfrayed - the .018's were a mess and can not figue why they would blow up and not the thinner patch.

I hate shooting PRB's - ya gotta be a scientist or CSI agent - i wanna put it in and pull da trigger. I am thinking Dave may have hit the problem - I mite be shooting to light of a charge... when it goes off it feels like my .17HRM but I thought that would be good for shooting targets...

2. PERSONALLY I think your off-hand target at 50yds YESTERDAY was GOOD! Throw out shot #4 and you are shooting inside 2 inches at 50yds offhand. I can do no better.

Well, truth be know the GUN is a lot better shooter than I am.

3. I too believe that for some reason the .018 T/C patch is leaking gas around it and not sealing. I assume this patch is dry and you use some liquid lube of some sort. Got any Bore Butter? Why don't you put some in a plastic bag and add some Bore Butter and throw them in the microwave for a few seconds until they soak it up?

Gonna try this also.... wish the rondy guys would let me shoot my 460 grain bullshops at their targets - them are accurate and certainly would make their gongs - GONG!

 

[Swampman]

IMO almost everyone shoots balls that are too big and patches that are too thin. If it's hard to start, that's the problem. The correct combo won't require bore buttons, or wads. The lack of .520 & .485 balls or molds is what really sucks.

 

[sabotloader]

Well made some changes this morning after I cleaned the gun.

Removed the 'V' peep and installed a Lyman. Had to do a little wood work on the side of the stock but hopefully!!!

Hopefully this will help make me a better PRB shooter...

 

[cayuga]

That looks really good Sabotloader. That should make a good shooter out of it. I have a T/C tang peep that would fit that rifle too.

 

[sproulman]

Well made some changes this morning after I cleaned the gun.

Removed the 'V' peep and installed a Lyman. Had to do a little wood work on the side of the stock but hopefully!!!

Hopefully this will help make me a better PRB shooter...

i drilled a hole back in front of frizzen and moved the RMC V-PEEP there.

it looks better than lyman there and works good.

only thing is you cant reduce the aperature with RMC if you want smaller hole.

but, it works real good there and i like it better there than up barrel for target and buck hunting.

as for patchs, if trying bore butter/crisco/olive oil on patch does not improve it, it must be your patch/ball is too tight.

after you clean your bore, take ramrod with worm with a big piece of cotton.

push it down bore and back out slow.

take your bore light and see if you got a lot of fuzz sticking inside on lands.

if so, that could be problem, but i have never seen that unless bore was pitted badly.

but, that will take bore out of the process.