Testing the Lehigh Generation II - Knight Plug

[sabotloader]

I did get out Sunday to run another test on the new Gen II plug. This time I took the Extreme MHC 50 cal out for the test run run the new plug.

My goal again was to observe cleanliness and the ability to shoot BH consistently with a variety of primers....

It is my belief the the Lehigh Vent Liner is one of the single most biggest advances to a breech plug in years.... Not just because it can be replaced at some some point in the future without buying a whole new breech plug, but the abilty that it give you ignite powders with a variety of primers.

Western Powders and Lehigh continue to suggest that you should use a hot primer to ignite BH, either a Federal 209A or a CCI-209M. It is my belief you can use most any primer you want to ignite BH if you have the vent liner in the BP.

OK - I should say that I am not saying that other BP's will not work with different primers but i think the vent liner adds reliabilty and extended use...

Sunday i shot 15 shots of 110 grains of BH with different primers and got instant ignition with all. Also comparable velocities and and comparable accuracy, especially for me shooting through a chronograph as I spend more time focused on it than I do the target. The other factor was I was on a time limit so I was shooting one shot right after another.

Cleanliness.... the Lehigh BP was installed in the gun with the longest measured breech area, so i was concerned the primer(s) might leak a little blow back as not all primers used toched the primer shelf in the primer pocket.

I really was not dissappointed... It was great. There was a minimal amount of blow back dust - but everything just wipped off. I really believe I could have continued to shoot the rest of the day without cleaning or disassembly of anything. Not only that the 'flash channel' showed very little sign of 'clogging up'. I do not think it would have...

Here is a set of pictures after the shooting trip...

In two of the other DISC's I have I would have had a tighter fit and even less dusting....

Here is the target with the different velocities for all 15 shots with the different primers... Hot ones and cold ones.....

All loads were volume loads thrown at the shooting site....

Do not get to critical of the grouping - i was in a hurry and i know I had a couple of OOPs!!! along the way...

All-in-all I think Lehigh Dave has a winner product....

 

[k]

nice report
i'm sure that BP would be really clean in one of your "shorter" knight's
i imagine i'll be buying one with my next order of bullets....karl

 

[GM54-120]

My Gen II arrived today

My replacement Gen II arrived today at NO CHARGE. I even told him when i got the refund that mine worked as needed in my GMB54.

OUTSTANDING customer service and the Gen II is beautifully machined like the first one.

He will continue to get more of my business.

Thank you Dave, this country needs more businesses and people like you.

 

[rt_con]

Got my Gen II today too.

Also got some more 185gr DOA's that are shooting great out of the .45 Elite. :lol:

Dave's a class act... I'm sure to be buying more from him.

 

[GM54-120]

Got my Gen II today too.

Also got some more 185gr DOA's that are shooting great out of the .45 Elite. :lol:

Dave's a class act... I'm sure to be buying more from him.

Yep my best 200yard group was with the 40-185 DOA. Sub 2" on a sled sold me. I had concerns about the low BC but they perform much better than the numbers would imply.

 

[HawgHunter]

I received my generation II breech plug in the mail also. I haven't even had time to fire the generation I yet. You have to love their customer service.

 

[sabotloader]

HawgHunter

If you get a chance I would really like you to install the Gen II plug and make sure it fits and the bolt closes.

Dave has worked hard to try to make this plug universal but the Knight tolerances may be wider than any of us expected....

let me know

 

[sabotloader]

One thing that I keep forgetting to mention.... If you try to install a Lehigh plug with a regular Knight breech plug tool, it will probably bottom out before the plug is seated. I really would recommend that you use a 7/16" deep socket. You will probably need to use a 1/4" drive socket so the walls of the socket are not are not to thick.

 

[GM54-120]

First "fit test" Extreme 50 with 9xxx serial #---tight but if its like the Gen I it will loosen a tiny bit.

Win209 primer (longest) drops in and comes out correctly. Pulling back on the bolt is tight but primer falls out of the adapter.

Fired primer---spotless and LOUD

Cheddite 209 is a tiny bit easier.

Fired primer--slight residue near the bottom. None made it passed half way up the primer side. Much quieter compared to Win209.

Both removed fairly easy after firing. IMO tight but a good tight. No residue in the breach and only a slight amount in the primer pocket. I just cleaned the Extreme and the breach/bolt face was and still is spotless with just 2 primers fired.


Elite 45 next with 1xxx serial #.

 

[GM54-120]

Cleaned the slight residue from primer pocket first.

Bolt closes easier with and without Win209 primer. In the Gen I this gun was the loosest and dirtiest of my 3 DISC based rifles.

Win209 primer inserts, extracts and falls out of the NFPJ adapter very nicely. The Win209 does go all the way in the primer pocket with just finger pressure. The Cheddite appears to have a bit larger OD but it is shorter.

Fired Win209---Spotless and appear near perfect head spacing. Even the bottom of the primer is almost spotless and flawless extraction. :yeah:

Fired Cheddite--Same as Extreme 50. Some residue on the sides of the primer and flawless extraction. :yeah:

Im not going to test any other primers for now. I mainly wanted to make sure it worked with the longest primer Win209 (my favorite) and the least expensive primer i can get locally.

Conclusion for now....this is MUCH better than the Gen I in my Elite 45 and better than the Extreme 50 also. Since i shoot the 45 the most its performance in the 45 is most important to me.

BTW i am using a PR vent liner but i doubt this test makes any difference. The breach and bolt face in both look great after only 2 primers. The Gen I works fine in my GMB54 wiht Win209s so im not going to test it for now.

Thank you Dave and Sabotloader for your efforts. I will attempt a range test this weekend with the Elite 45 and maybe the Extreme 50 but if it passes with the 45 it should work as good with the "tighter" Extreme.

Scott

 

[rt_con]

One thing that I keep forgetting to mention.... If you try to install a Lehigh plug with a regular Knight breech plug tool, it will probably bottom out before the plug is seated. I really would recommend that you use a 7/16" deep socket. You will probably need to use a 1/4" drive socket so the walls of the socket are not are not to thick.

+1 to what sabotloader said about using the Knight breech plug tool to install the Lehigh plugs...or even the Knight NFPJ plug.

I had to drill out the center of the Knight tool to install the Knight NFPJ plug as well. My guess is the breech plug tool was manufactured before the NFPJ came out... and the NFPJ and Lehigh plugs have a longer neck than the FPJ plugs.

Very easy to drill out..... think I used a 5/16" bit. Drill until the tool gets a full purchase on the lugs.

 

[GM54-120]

I will test the rest of the primers i know fit tonite since im taking off a day and the cleaning wont matter.

Thanks again SB, i did have to use a deep well socket the last time to get mine to work. I learned from my mistake this time.

In the Gen II the Win209s really do look great. 99% carbon free and even the base of the primers is clean indicating a good headspace on mine. Almost all of the ignition of the primer is going where it belongs...down the flash channel.

Primer removal sofar is flawless in the Elite 45 and slightly tight in the Extreme 50. Both fall out of the NFPJ adapter with ease after extraction.

I wish everyone the good results ive gotten from the preliminarily short tests.

Scott

 

[GM54-120]

Small update in Elite 45

All primers inserted and extracted flawlessly including firing.

Fired WinT7 primer---Primer is nearly spotless and much louder than in other guns and breach plugs ive tested.---Conclusion...they will probably work great even with BH209.

Fed209A- not bad at all. Only light soot on the sides near the bottom

CCI209M-- also not bad. Just a bit dirtier than the Fed209A with just a bit of carbon near the bottom and sides.

Rem STS--its still only average in terms of blowby but still reasonable. No hard carbon residue past the bottom edges.

CCI209 standard---these are still one of the dirtiest primers ive tried. Soot and carbon almost all the way upto the "rim" of the primer.

Fired 2 more Win209s at the end to see if they were cleanest since they were first in a clean plug.

Nope still spotless...and i meen spotless. You can hardly see any carbon on the bottom of the primer and none on the sides. It appears that 99% is going down the channel.

The Gen II looks very promising and in my Elite 45 it functions about as good as possible without having it custom head spaced. The WinT7s really surprised me compared to other plugs including my CVAs. They are much louder, even louder than the Rem STS. Plus very very clean.

After roughly 12 primers the breach and bolt face only have a very light soot and IMO if i would have only used Win209s it would like like it had just been cleaned.

This weekend i will try and really test the 3 best in my Elite 45.
1) Win209
2) WinT7
3 Fed209A

All three looked great and should cover all of my shooting needs. If T7s ignite BH209 without an issue, i think that would be a real accomplishment IMO.



Scott

 

[rjhans53]

I got mine this last week. Bolt closes extreemly tight but it does close. Blow back, There is some but probably less than with the knight NFPJ set up. The primer never got to where it did not just fall out. BH209 shot better than it ever has (really well in fact) and t7 went off with out a hitch I used the winchester t7 primers on the t7 and there was a hair of a ring but nothing to talk about. Overall I think a good product and money well spent

 

[GM54-120]

I just ordered a spare NFPJ and some more of the 40-185gr DOAs.

I would like to hear from more 45cal owners that have tried the Lehigh NFPJ.

Sofar it appear the Gen II is a bit tight in the Extreme 50s including mine but all primers extracted ok and fell out of the NFPJ adapter just fine. Much better than the Gen I in the same rifle.

The larger than bore vent liner pocket really seems to have a very positive effect on ignition in the 45. I used the Lehigh vent liner last time, this time im trying the PR vent liner. It has a .001 larger hole (roughly).

Weather looks good for tomorrow's battle of the 45s

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

I can tell you it worked well for me in the 45 - i have not tried it yet in the second. I also have another Elite 50 that has not been shot with the GEN II plug. But I am really confident it will work there also as the Extreme 50 loosest Knight i have and the 10-2 45 is the tightest...

I really want you to shoot some BH with the Win T7 primer and see what you think... I know it will do just fine but were i hunting with it in cold weather I would use a Win W209.

 

[GM54-120]

GM54-120

I can tell you it worked well for me in the 45 - i have not tried it yet in the second. I also have another Elite 50 that has not been shot with the GEN II plug. But I am really confident it will work there also as the Extreme 50 loosest Knight i have and the 10-2 45 is the tightest...

I really want you to shoot some BH with the Win T7 primer and see what you think... I know it will do just fine but were i hunting with it in cold weather I would use a Win W209.

I really really really want to try the WinT7s with BH209 in the conversion too. At this point im fairly sure it will work and work well under most weather conditions. I agree though, in the cold i want every advantage i can get. Either Win209s if they are 100% or Fed209As if not.

I was pretty shocked when i test fired the WinT7s in the GenII. I wasnt expecting such a loud report. They have never been this loud in any of my rifles. They were noticeably louder than RemSTS primers.

Why?...im not sure...Does loudness indicate better?...im not sure

One thing i do know is they appear to be pretty clean and leave very little hard carbon. Its more of a soot residue than carbon on an oil free metal surface.

I will post pics of the Win primers tonite so you can see they are still shiny and IMO look perfect. I have about 5 saved including 2 i shot at the end of the primer testing.

Im stoked and the weather report for tomorrow is looking good. :yeah:

Scott

 

[gobbler getter]

how do i go about ordering this new gen. II plug

 

[txhunter58]

http://lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=28

 

[GM54-120]

This is a sample of what i got from mine using Win209s, Fed209As and WinT7s. There wasnt too much of a difference between the 3 that it would make any large difference in cleaning. IMO these 3 should cover about any shooting conditions or powders i would be using.

In the Eilte 45 1xxx serial range with GenII