Some Savage 10ML-II owners in the past have experienced an issue with primers sticking in the primer carrier on bolt face, NOT EXTRACTION FROM BREECH PLUG. My particular gun (breech plug(s) also had this same issue from day one as well as my replacement breech plug , and I now know how to remedy this.
I performed a primer test with the primer samples Scott Schilling was kind enough to send me. No powder charge was used only primers, to eliminate powder charge from possible causes. Test was done with a used breechplug and VL slightly fouled.
1. CCI 209 No sticking in primer carrier, slid out
real smooth and easy.
2. CCI 209M No sticking in primer carrier, slid out
OK.
3. Win 209 old style (copper color) stuck in primer
carrier and also showed signs of anvil cup flattening.
4. Win 209 new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier.
5. Fed 209A old style (copper color) slid out OK but
exhibited a LOT of blowback through receiver gas
ports.
6. Fed 209A new style (silver color) slid out OK but
also exhibited a LOT of blowback through receiver gas
ports.
I then cleaned the breech plug of primer residue with
5/32" drill bit by running all the way through breech
plug with a drill.
I then cleaned all the carbon out of primer pocket on
breech plug with a 1/4" bit by hand. It looked CLEAN. I also checked VL opening and it was appx .035".
Test no. 2
1. Fed 209A new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier and exhibited a LOT of blowby through receiver
gas ports and was also harder to extract from breech
plug with clean primer pocket.
2. Fed 209A old style (copper color) stuck in primer
carrier and also exhibited a LOT of blowby out the
receiver gas ports and it also was harder to extract
from breech plug with clean primer pocket.
3. CCI 209 no sticking in primer carrier and slid out
very smooth. However this was after the 2 prior
primers had slightly fouled the breech plug primer
pocket.
4. Again Fed 209a new style (silver color) No sticking in
primer pocket but still showed CONSIDERABLE amount of
blowby through receiver gas ports, extaction from
breech plug primer pocket OK.
5. Again Win 209 new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier as usual, 10 out of 10 times.
The Win 209 primers (looser fit) cosistently showed more anvil cup protrusion after firing than all other brands and
stuck in primer carrier every time, with clean or fouled breech plug primer pocket.
The Fed 209A's demonstrated CONSIDERABLY more blowback through the receiver gas ports than all the other
brands, but only stuck the primer in the primer
carrier for a couple of shots until primer pocket was soiled and also showed harder breech plug extraction after breech plug primer pocket was cleaned of all carbon.
The CCI's seemed to perform more consistent than all
the other brands with a negligable amount, if any,
blowback through the receiver gas ports and the least
amount of anvil cup protrusion, thereby sliding out
very smooth.
With my particular breechplug(s) the CCI's worked best
followed by the Fed 209A's (new style).Your results
may vary from mine, but with a test like this you can
determine what works and what doesn't in your guns
breech plug(s) if this issue occurs.
I will say this, that the perceived primer power , the
actual spent energetic coming out and hitting a concrete floor seemed much stronger in the Win 209 than all others.??? I think the reason that the Fed 209a's which are supposed to be hotter, actually seemed weaker is because part of the force was being diverted out the receiver gas ports (too hot) before it had a chance to make it out the VL and the barrel.
The reason this issue seems to occur is primer variance (mfg) and loose fit in the primer pocket on breech plug. A loose fitting primer will be pushed foreward upon firing pin impact creating a void between primer face, and bolt face,sticking it in primer pocket, and when primer energetic is released the pressure builds rearward enough to force primer anvil cup out and back in the primer carrier thereby eliminating the tolerance in the primer carrier slot causing it to stick. Then by re-cocking bolt and dry-firing primer anvil cup is pushed back in far enough to allow primer to slide out of primer carrier slot.
Finding the right size primers (fit) is the key to preventing this issue when it happens, and it also helps extaction from breech plug to have a slighty soiled primer pocket as it serves to form fit the primer, and I beleive it provides a small amount of lubrication to aid in the extaction process.
These are my findings and conclusions after the above
tests were performed. Your situation may vary, and it is up to you to find the primer that works best in your particular (breech plug) gun. I hope you find this info helpful and I can proudly say this has remedied my sticking issue, finally.
Pocampo
I performed a primer test with the primer samples Scott Schilling was kind enough to send me. No powder charge was used only primers, to eliminate powder charge from possible causes. Test was done with a used breechplug and VL slightly fouled.
1. CCI 209 No sticking in primer carrier, slid out
real smooth and easy.
2. CCI 209M No sticking in primer carrier, slid out
OK.
3. Win 209 old style (copper color) stuck in primer
carrier and also showed signs of anvil cup flattening.
4. Win 209 new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier.
5. Fed 209A old style (copper color) slid out OK but
exhibited a LOT of blowback through receiver gas
ports.
6. Fed 209A new style (silver color) slid out OK but
also exhibited a LOT of blowback through receiver gas
ports.
I then cleaned the breech plug of primer residue with
5/32" drill bit by running all the way through breech
plug with a drill.
I then cleaned all the carbon out of primer pocket on
breech plug with a 1/4" bit by hand. It looked CLEAN. I also checked VL opening and it was appx .035".
Test no. 2
1. Fed 209A new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier and exhibited a LOT of blowby through receiver
gas ports and was also harder to extract from breech
plug with clean primer pocket.
2. Fed 209A old style (copper color) stuck in primer
carrier and also exhibited a LOT of blowby out the
receiver gas ports and it also was harder to extract
from breech plug with clean primer pocket.
3. CCI 209 no sticking in primer carrier and slid out
very smooth. However this was after the 2 prior
primers had slightly fouled the breech plug primer
pocket.
4. Again Fed 209a new style (silver color) No sticking in
primer pocket but still showed CONSIDERABLE amount of
blowby through receiver gas ports, extaction from
breech plug primer pocket OK.
5. Again Win 209 new style (silver color) stuck in primer
carrier as usual, 10 out of 10 times.
The Win 209 primers (looser fit) cosistently showed more anvil cup protrusion after firing than all other brands and
stuck in primer carrier every time, with clean or fouled breech plug primer pocket.
The Fed 209A's demonstrated CONSIDERABLY more blowback through the receiver gas ports than all the other
brands, but only stuck the primer in the primer
carrier for a couple of shots until primer pocket was soiled and also showed harder breech plug extraction after breech plug primer pocket was cleaned of all carbon.
The CCI's seemed to perform more consistent than all
the other brands with a negligable amount, if any,
blowback through the receiver gas ports and the least
amount of anvil cup protrusion, thereby sliding out
very smooth.
With my particular breechplug(s) the CCI's worked best
followed by the Fed 209A's (new style).Your results
may vary from mine, but with a test like this you can
determine what works and what doesn't in your guns
breech plug(s) if this issue occurs.
I will say this, that the perceived primer power , the
actual spent energetic coming out and hitting a concrete floor seemed much stronger in the Win 209 than all others.??? I think the reason that the Fed 209a's which are supposed to be hotter, actually seemed weaker is because part of the force was being diverted out the receiver gas ports (too hot) before it had a chance to make it out the VL and the barrel.
The reason this issue seems to occur is primer variance (mfg) and loose fit in the primer pocket on breech plug. A loose fitting primer will be pushed foreward upon firing pin impact creating a void between primer face, and bolt face,sticking it in primer pocket, and when primer energetic is released the pressure builds rearward enough to force primer anvil cup out and back in the primer carrier thereby eliminating the tolerance in the primer carrier slot causing it to stick. Then by re-cocking bolt and dry-firing primer anvil cup is pushed back in far enough to allow primer to slide out of primer carrier slot.
Finding the right size primers (fit) is the key to preventing this issue when it happens, and it also helps extaction from breech plug to have a slighty soiled primer pocket as it serves to form fit the primer, and I beleive it provides a small amount of lubrication to aid in the extaction process.
These are my findings and conclusions after the above
tests were performed. Your situation may vary, and it is up to you to find the primer that works best in your particular (breech plug) gun. I hope you find this info helpful and I can proudly say this has remedied my sticking issue, finally.
Pocampo
