Went to the range for the 2nd time

[earnhard3]

I went to the range for the second time with my Knight LRH.

Last time was the first time I shot the gun. This time I grapped other bullets and sabots and changed my grain amount and how I measured it.

Since I'm going hunting in Iowa with this ML I put a target at 100 yards and 200 yards. Oh course I like to have fun I put one at 300 yards to "play" I would not shoot 300 yards at a deer. Its just nice to know how you can push a gun and I wanted to see what the bullet frop would be.

Last time I shot 300gr harverster scorpion pt golds and measured 110 grains of BH209.

This time I switched to Barnes TMZ 250 GR Balistic Tips. I still used BH209 HOWEVER changed to 130 grains and this time I weighed it with a scale prior to going to the range. Roughly the scale I think was 92.3 grains (+/- 1 grain on the scales part)

I know for a fact when I did a scale test from a load I had last time it was more like 85 grains I was shooting.

This time with barnes bullets it was TIGHT pushed them down the barrel and had more of a seal/kick then the pt golds with a less of a charge.

the 100 yard target

1- After the first shot I did make a scope adjustment since I did change the bullets and amount of powder I used today- so toss out #1.

4- After somewhat happy #4 I tossed a 300 gr harvester pt gold bullet w/MMP BLACK HPH12 SABOT.

2,3,5,6- Are all 130 gr bh209 by weight, 250 gr tmz balistic tip barnes bullets with there sabots.


side notes- when I used the 300gr bullet the gun kicked ALOT more. When I ejected the bolt and to get the primer and primer hold out before marking the target for max cooling I noticed the primer "cap" was blown off. What does that mean? Some are perfect looking and the red cap are not burnt hardly at all. While this one was blown apart I guess you could say and the red cap was burnt. Most just look burnt.

200 yard target

1st shot- I was happy as hell.
2nd shot- Confused...confused...confused....
3rd shot- better but it should have been right with shot #1.


During this time I never cleaned the breech plug or barrel at all.


Does anyone have advice? All my shots seem to be perfect for the being center on the target, however for the height on 200 yards I was a bit off. I let the barrel cool 5+ mins every time and I was at the range at 8:30 am when they opened the gate and the temp never got above 49'f the whole time I was there. What about the primer?

 

[UtahRob]

I would try less powder , i am not a Mag load fan and never shot any loads over 100 grains in Volume .IMO Both my Traditions pursuit pro and my Encore liked 100 grains or less . I was using 90 grains of BH209 in my Encore and 100 grains of Pyrodex in my Traditions , I now use only 85 grains of 777 with the .25 acp conversion in my encore and i am getting very nice groups . I would start at 85-90 grains of BH209 and work up

Everything i plan on hunting here in Utah i should get at under 100 yards so mag loads are no big deal . I got into Muzzle loader hunting because of the challenge of getting only one shot and being a close range sport , I want the tightest group i can get at 50-100 yards after that i don't care . I really love shooting at small rocks up on the mountains above our home . I will pick out one the size of a soft ball and shoot at unmarked rages , it fun to watch the rock get pulverised in a cloud of white smoke .

 

[horsefly]

1st off the MAX LOAD by volume of black horn is 120gr. not 150 like other powders bh is a hotter burning powder. now my gun a trad pursuist loves 90gr. mesured of bk. with a 300gr. xtp .452 45cal. and a harvester crush rib 50cal sabot. shoots under 2 inch all day long, now i bought pre packaged bullets from traditions wich were 240gr. xtp's and i have no clue what sabots but they shot 2ft yes 2 foot groups!. so i just bought a few diffwerent types of bullets and sabots and started playin with them and loads till i found out what my gun liked.

above pic 4 shots 1 1/2 inch

above pic 5 shots still under 2 inches.

so you just need to play i personally started out with 80gr. then found a bullet and sabot combo that grouped then just kept goin up by 5gr of pouder till i was happy with my results, i was gonna go up to 100 gr. but with groups like above all day long i see no need to go above the 90gr. i'm at.

 

[earnhard3]

I'll drop my charge a bit. I want the add "kick" for the bullet to kill a big buck in Iowa and since I have never been there I'm looking at 200-250 yard shot from what I was told.

 

[stinkworm]

Earnhard3, I would say if you back off to between 110-120 gr. the groups should tighten up and still be plenty of power at 200+yds. with the 250 gr. Barnes bullet. Good luck and I want to see a picture of one of them old gnarly Iowa bucks.

 

[jsteurrys]

I asked the question to Sam from Knight last week and he stated that it is acceptable to use up to 150 grains of BH 209 in a Knight Rifle per the owners manual. They are shooting 120 to 150 grains with Barnes bullets per Sam again.

 

[earnhard3]

I'm dropping to 120 gr to see what the out come is. I might just try to go to the range on sunday...we'll see.

 

[horsefly]

I asked the question to Sam from Knight last week and he stated that it is acceptable to use up to 150 grains of BH 209 in a Knight Rifle per the owners manual. They are shooting 120 to 150 grains with Barnes bullets per Sam again.

well i wouldnt put such a strong statement out on bh as that. says right on the bottle and on their site that MAX LOAD is 120 for their powder. not sayin you are wrong i just wouldnt put my safety or any one else's on the line by goin above the recomended load for the powder type, my gun will shoot 150gr. of trip 7 or pydrex or blsack powder too as the manual says. but like i said bh says max is 120. for theirs. just my opinion.

 

[sagebrush]

I would say that you have to much pressure with the loads to blow the cap off a primer, anytime when you start to flatten a primer that means to much high pressure. not a good sign.

all you need is 120 grains of bh209.

i tried some goex 2f in my rifle today and used 105 grains. my rifle shot very well with the goex, and for some of you miss believers the rifle never got and dirtier than if I was using T7. nice not having to deal with a crud ring. granted I did swab before each shot like wise with T7.

 

[Lee 9]

earnhard3
The vertical distribution of shots with BH209 usually indicates that you need more or less powder, also with BH209 it is best to only move 5 gr at a time it is progressive powder and acts a bit different the a consistent burn sub. I would go up and down 5 gr each way looking for the group to take a more round aspect I would also consider a breach plug that did not us the plastic 209 holder; reason being 209 is sensitive to differences in ignition and that plastic holder cushions the blow from the firing pin.

 

[sabotloader]

Not to get sideways with anyone but the FPJ is the system that both Grouse, myself and others use and it seems to work very well.... the bigger problem with BH might be when re-using the FPJ, which again I do - probably up to 6/7 times. But when hunting I only use new FPJ's. Plus there are also a lot folks using the NFPJ but if you have the domed plug it might cause you some problems unless you are willing to modifiy it.

Several times shot FPJ's will provide greater leakage than new tight jackets.

Another consideration with the Knight is the build up of carbon in the flash channel - that! you do have to clean out and keep clean. And just my take it is not the BH that causes the problem it is the use of very hot 209 primers that provide a very healthy amount fire in a very small contained area. The NFPJ which has a much longer flash channel than the FPJ and might be able to reduce the amount blow back seen at the breech.

 

[earnhard3]

lee-

as other said 120 was the "max" I was told 130 was still safe from several sources who I called though. I dropped ALL my stuff to 120, and I have 5 with 115 in too.

I like the full plastic jackets because off the elements outside and I know the dome breech plug isn't made for bh209

 

[sabotloader]

earnhard3

The Knight DISC series of rifles is one of the few guns that are rated to 150 grains of T7 - they did not have BH when the manuals were made. Several poeple including the folks at Knight are/have been shooting 150 grains of BH from the DISC series - not sure that it gets the best accuracy but it is a safe load with projectiles under 290 grains.

I would/have used 120 grains under .458/300 grain Noslers and it seems to work really well for me. In my 45 Knight it seems that 110 gives me the best accuracy with a .40/200 grain bullet. And those numbers work at my elevation and shooting conditions in this area - your place might be completely different. I know that Grouse gets great performance from 130-140 grains in his 45, but he is much closer to sea level than I am.

Yep +1 more on the jackets - but I am a freak also 'cuse I like the secondary safety at the time it might be needed and I know a lot of people do not like it either.

 

[earnhard3]

my sea level is about 700 feet.


where I'm hunting in iowa it'll be about 750 feet.

I figure last time I shot what I thought was 110 gr of bh209 by volume it had to be less. With a sabot and bullet weight change of 50gr the pattern is straght up and down for the most part. Just need to shrink the powder to get a clover leaf pattern.

 

[fisher2072]

I went and shot my Knight LRH today with BH209, 300gr Harvester PT Gold and Harvester Red Crush rib sabot. I got great results with 115-120gr volume charge. the 120gr volume was shooting 3/4in or less at 100yds. I tried the same load "with the exception of a Black Crush Rib sabot" in my TC Triumph, and accuracy went downhill. Also the primer was flat across the face and hard to remove from the breechplug on the triumph. The triumph shoots the PT Gold well "sub MOA" with 110gr volume charge, but the groups open up to 3" with 120Gr volume.

 

[earnhard3]

I had the same 300gr bullets but had the black sabots that come with the bullet...they are just wayyy to easy to load.

So I have 30 300gr harverster pt golds sitting around. Just need to find a sabot thats similar to barnes tmz'z to load them in and see what I can do from there.

 

[horsefly]

e-mail or call harvester they can and will hook you up, they did me.

 

[fisher2072]

I did the same thing. I just bought the Red Crush ribs from them and problem solved. You can also buy the bullets per 50ct without sabots, and order 50ct sabots of the Red CR. With the black Crush Rib sabots, the weight of my ramrod was almost enough to push the load down the barrel. The red crush ribs worked out great. Instantanous fire every time, and great groups to boot! Give Ron at harvester a call and he'll get you setup.

 

[earnhard3]

red sabots are on the way...just need to fine tune the different bullets i have to the proper amount of bh209