Bullet vs sabot length question

[johnpb]

I was looking in the sabot dia. sticky but I didn't see anything about the length of the sabot compared to the bullet length. Does it matter and is there a time that the sabot is too long? Too short of a sabot? Thanks.

 

[Lee 9]

John it does make a difference especially with some bullets. The SW for instance will usually shoot best with the Short Black Harvester for some of us who happened to be able to use that thickness while in the same gun I have to use the Long black [300+] Harvester with 250 gr Gold Dots to get optimum performance and the best group.

 

[tpcollins]

Which is more important - sabot length or the thickness allowing for a loose-snug-tight fit? I would think once the bearing surface of the bullet is covered, the longer sabot would open up quicker and fall off once it exited the barrel and let the bullet continue on it's journey - but needs to be short enough so it doesn't interfere with the jag when loading. Then again I could be all wet.

 

[derfhunter]

I think you need the sabot short enough so the jag does not bind inside the sabot, which can pull the sabot-bullet off the powder charge when you pull the ramrod. Some jags are tapered on the end to prevent this from happening but most are not.

 

[Lee 9]

I would say the thickness is most critical. I have trimmed the length with finger nail clippers on the range to see what a particular bullet liked. You do have to get it even if you do that.
Now this is an opinion based on my experiences, I believe that the shape of the nose of the bullet is what causes a different type of air flow there for a Sharp nose bullet slides the air right under the petals of a sabot and a big hollow point has a rougher air flow so it needs longer petals.
Getting the thickness right is basic to getting decent groups getting the length right is needful for one hole groups on a consistent bases.

 

[sabotloader]

johnpb

Sabot length... this is a little difficult for me to explain, I really respect any thing that that Lee may explain, but I my estimation of I have not seen the differences that he speaks of. Also I should say that I am not near the perfectionist that Lee, a former competitive bench shooter, is. I am more in search of hunting performance, accuracy, consistentcy within the ranges that I might shoot with the bullets that I am using. Shoot! as I have have said before I do not even shoot the most accurate bulets I have - I shoot the bullet that consistently performs the best on an animal.

With that said, I use the MMP HPH-24 or comparable 40-45 caliber MMP sabot for 95% of the shooting I do. While they may seem long for some bullets that i shoot, they certainly work for me.

In repsonse to another one of your questions, I firmly believe that the thickness of the sabot and how it compresses and fits into your bore is one of the most important aspects of shooting a sabot and bullet accurately.

As derfhunter pointed out, one of the bigger problems with shooting a long petal sabot is the possibility of damaging the petals with the loading jag while loading. I think the 'Spin Jag' has solved that problem in that it does not contact the petals of the sabot as other jags can.

Another thought I would share is that the length of the petals can and does aid the sabot to get a 'quicker' release from the projectile. This should also help accuracy as well as not act as a drag to slow velocity.

Clipping sabots, I have never tried it or considered it myself. I would worry about getting the angle of the clip, and the length of the clip - exactly the same from petal to petal on a given sabot and then getting the same clip from sabot to sabot within a shooting group.

I 'believe' Sabotmaker of MMP, has indicated to me that equal petal length and cut on a sabot is important to consistentcy. I can tell you that 'quality control' will and does reject a run of sabots from production that does not have equal length petals.

 

[GM54-120]

I would say the thickness is most critical. I have trimmed the length with finger nail clippers on the range to see what a particular bullet liked. You do have to get it even if you do that.
Now this is an opinion based on my experiences, I believe that the shape of the nose of the bullet is what causes a different type of air flow there for a Sharp nose bullet slides the air right under the petals of a sabot and a big hollow point has a rougher air flow so it needs longer petals.
Getting the thickness right is basic to getting decent groups getting the length right is needful for one hole groups on a consistent bases.

Agree completely.

One of my favorite bullets doesn't do well with one of my favorite sabots because its too long or the bullet is too short.....depending on how you look at it.

Some sabots have a slight beveled petal edge that helps over come this issue a little bit. It acts like an air scoop and promotes separation....at least in theory.

 

[tpcollins]

One of my favorite bullets doesn't do well with one of my favorite sabots because its too long or the bullet is too short.....depending on how you look at it.

I would think you could turn down the end of the loading jag on a lathe that would: - contact only the bullet's nose, clear the ends of the sabot petals, and still have some upper diameter left to stay centered in the bore.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Or an electric metal grinder, thats what I used.

 

[Lee 9]

One of my favorite bullets doesn't do well with one of my favorite sabots because its too long or the bullet is too short.....depending on how you look at it.

I would think you could turn down the end of the loading jag on a lathe that would: - contact only the bullet's nose, clear the ends of the sabot petals, and still have some upper diameter left to stay centered in the bore.

I take an electric drill and put the jag in it and run it at slow speed then go to the small fine grind wheel for sharpening my tools and take the corner off so it can not catch the sabot when loading. It is my belief that I got rid of quite a few fliers that way. The way a sabot comes off a bullet is critical to accuracy, it must come off strait with out any tipping or side pressure.

 

[GM54-120]

Ive got a Powerbelt loading jag that goes in the hollow point and seems to work fine. Also a standard cleaning jag will just barely clear the sabot petals but the bullet is just barely longer.

I mostly just use them with another sabot that works almost as well instead of changing out jags. That combo worked about the best in my Ovation and...

I got my Ovation back today...i couldn't take not having a faster twist 50 carbine any more

 

[Semisane]

Why not just pick up a .45 caliber jag and use that for long sabot/short bullet combinations?

 

[johnpb]

Thanks guys, I kind of understand about the thickness of sabots and now I'm kind of understanding about the length. It never occurred to me about the jag getting "stuck" in the sabot if the bullet was not long enough.