American Pioneer Powder

[doglvrdexter]

Anyone have any experience with American Pioneer Powder (Stix)? Read an interesting article in American Rifleman. Supposed to be very clean burning leaving behind little residue which makes cleaning easier and less frequent cleaning. Any thoughts?

 

[txhunter58]

Have not shot it personally. Things I have heard from those who have:

clean buring powder that virtually eliminates "crud" or a "crud ring" between shots.

Accurate powder if you are willing to work up a load.

About the same power as Pyrodex, not as powerful as 777 or blackmag3

More likely to attract moisture/water. Some missfires in wet weather reported. Supposedly Jim Shockey's Gold is screened APP (finer), but the rumer is it may be better in the moisture area.

I do have a bottle, and plan on trying it, but I am trying out Black Mag3 at the moment. It was VERY clean compared to 777 or pyrodex, and if I can find an accurate load, I will probably stick with it. I will be checking it with my chrony, but it is purported to be more powerful than Pyrodex or blackpowder by volume. Maybe 15%? I am looking for an elk load and will be looking in the 80-100 grain range (by volume). Plenty of power for elk, and no need to go beyond that or put up with the kick!

 

[RCL]

My buddie used American Pioneer Powder (loose) in his Omega last season. He says accuracy wise it is the same as what he was using before (Pyrodex pellets).
Fouling was less and clean up was much easier. I examined his gun after he shot it down at camp, and there was very little fouling. What was there cleaned out easily and quickly with hot water.

 

[richdeerht]

Compared to 777, American Pioneer (AP) has some advantages and disadvantages. Based on my experience on 3 inlines- Marlin MLS-54, TC XR .45, Knight Disce Elite .50.

AP is easier to ignite than 777. In a non-209 inline, it's more reliable, especially after a couple shots. For hunting, where you only fire once from a clean gun, it might not matter.
In a gun with a tighter-fitting (harder loading) sabot, like my XR .45, AP pretty much matches 777 for accuracy. It needs a little more powder, but achieves the same velocities and extreme spreads.
In my Disc Elite, which loads easier, AP cannot match 777 for velocity or accuracy. In my MLS-54 (non-209 ignition) , 777 beats AP for velocity, but is a pain to keep it going at the range after the gun gets dirty.

So, in certain guns, AP may work better.

 

[Spitpatch]

Here's a good read on the loose stuff.....from Chuck.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... an+pioneer

 

[Cal45]

doglvrdexter,
I haven't used their sticks but have used their loose powder. I couldn't get any groups with two different MLs and two different bullets. I went through almost whole pound canister. This powder is very moisture sensative so kept top on canister except to pour small amount into powder horn.

 

[w8cop]

I have used Pioneer 50 grain sticks in 2 ML's with Power Belt bullets. They are deadly from both on deer,and very accurate.

 

[cayuga]

I shot some of my friends APP sticks and was not really that impressed with it. Maybe the rifle I was shooting that day did not like them.

I do shoot the loose powder. In my black powder shotgun it is a great loose powder. I also like it in my black powder revolvers. I have a couple inlines and traditional rifles that shoot the loose APP real well.

w8cop let me welcome you to the forum. Its good to have you here.

 

[jbargers]

In my omega, it shot very well. I ran a bought a pound of it earlier this year. POI was the same as T7 with same 120gr charge. I set my dad up with it because he is notorius for not cleaning his gun. It is the cleanest stuff out there, no crud and it cleans up quick. For the guy who hunts, shoots very few times a year, i recommend it. But I will say my groups did open up when compared to T7.

 

[gobbler getter]

i bought 4 pounds of the sticks when it was still called cleanshot. still have 3 pounds of it. in my 54 cal. forget about it will not group better than 5 inches. in my 50 cal i was getting a little better the i bought a KNIGHT 45 cal. i noticed the pellets are allmost caliber size i started with 3 (30 grain ) i was amazed at the groups 2 inches i then loaded 4 pellets and ended up with 1.25 inch groups at 100 yards shooting a 200 grain xtp. actual weight of these pellets are 25 grains on my rcbs 10-10 scale

 

[GM54-120]

No but ive tried 2 loose versions of Shockeys Gold.

The 2fg loose powder is very hard to measure. Its size is way to big but worked "ok" in a 54 T/C Thunderhawk and a 209 conversion.

The 3fg isnt too bad for practice powder if you just want less fouling than Pyrodex or T7. I found the 3fg to be about the same power as Pyrodex Select.

The bad

It absorbs moisture like a sponge and getting consistent velocity can be a pain depending on your bore and projectile. Ive never been able to get what i consider GOOD results with over 100gr charges and 250gr bullets.

Keep it sealed well and in a semi air tight box with moisture absorbent packets in the box.

I never tried the sicks due to many terrible reviews and quality control issues.

 

[hawgslayer]

8)

I don't like the APP or the APP GOLD PELLETS. For some unknown reason they seem to be too snug (I put them in right,narrow end in first) as you seat them on the breech plug. I perfer the APP GOLD loose powder. I've been shooting it for months and have great groups. Both of my accuras are zeroed in at 2" high at 50 and they are dead on at 100 yards. Was able to put 2 does in the freezer this season. I shoot the premeasured tubes of APP and then I refill them with APP GOLD. Each charge is weighed on a grain scale and measured in a U-VIEW. I like my shots to be consistant. All of my charges are within 1 grain of wach other. As far as moisture goes, I've never had a problem. I keep my powder in plastic bags and I through a few of those little selica pachages in the bag also. I will be testing that issue shortly because I left 4 speed loaders loaded and they are on top of my safe. We'll see if it soaks up water like some claim.
The powder burns clean and leaves no crud/burn ring which allows me to shoot and load without any problems. Clean up is really easy and removing the breech plug is no problem either. I've never had a miss fire or a hang fire using the componets that I use. Easy to load, easy to seat the powerbelt h/p and easy to clean. All that makes me a happy shooter :!:

 

[hawgslayer]

8)

I don't like the APP or the APP GOLD PELLETS. For some unknown reason they seem to be too snug (I put them in right,narrow end in first) as you seat them on the breech plug. I perfer the APP GOLD loose powder. I've been shooting it for months and have great groups. Both of my accuras are zeroed in at 2" high at 50 and they are dead on at 100 yards. Was able to put 2 does in the freezer this season. I shoot the premeasured tubes of APP and then I refill them with APP GOLD. Each charge is weighed on a grain scale and measured in a U-VIEW. I like my shots to be consistant. All of my charges are within 1 grain of wach other. As far as moisture goes, I've never had a problem. I keep my powder in plastic bags and I through a few of those little selica pachages in the bag also. I will be testing that issue shortly because I left 4 speed loaders loaded and they are on top of my safe. We'll see if it soaks up water like some claim.
The powder burns clean and leaves no crud/burn ring which allows me to shoot and load without any problems. Clean up is really easy and removing the breech plug is no problem either. I've never had a miss fire or a hang fire using the componets that I use. Easy to load, easy to seat the powerbelt h/p and easy to clean. All that makes me a happy shooter :!:

 

[Flhtr]

I've tried the sticks and I didn't like them. The problem I had with them was the fact that I had trouble getting them in the barrel without them breaking into pieces. Also, many of the sticks in the container were already broken. As stated before, not very much residue so cleaning was not an issue. I highly recommend Blackhorn 209.

 

[frontier gander]

I cant use pellet powder in Colorado but i did pick up a can of APP 2f and love the stuff. I used to shoot a lot of pyrodex but its going to be hard to pull me off this APP stuff. I havent noticed any problems with the powder drawing moisture as of yet. I do want to try that sometime though just to see.

 

[scratcherky]

APP draws moisture before and after firing. If you use it be sure to clean your rifle each day after firing. Personally I do not like it.

 

[frontier gander]

all black powder * real stuff* T7 and pyrodex draw moisture before and after firing. i personally havent experienced any problems with APP so far with moisture. Most important thing with APP, keep lube away!!