Question about loads and did not know how to search with it so here goes--how much pressure needs to be used to load/seat your bullet/sabot to get the correct fit to ensure a good accurate load. I understand they need to be tight. Thanks
sabot fit
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I've used some sabot/bullet combos that went down the barrel with very little pressure. They weren't all that accurate. My favorite loads are the one's where I have to use a palm saver on my ramrod to seat the bullet. I like a tight fitting sabot/bullet. I've never measured how much pressure I use, but I think I read where 40 to 60 lbs of force is about right.
Whether necessary or not, I plan to get a Chilliton type force gauge so I can see how various loading pressures contribute to accuracy - and what amount works the best.
However, I'm wondering if I seat a load when it's 40-50 degrees, keep it outside during the hunting season, will it stay at that amount of pressure when it gets colder? Theoretically, if the temp drops to say 20 degrees, the metal barrel should shrink and cause the bore to enlarge - albeit slight.
This would make me think the load may "loosen up" over time and therefore not be as accurate as when first loaded . . . .
However, I'm wondering if I seat a load when it's 40-50 degrees, keep it outside during the hunting season, will it stay at that amount of pressure when it gets colder? Theoretically, if the temp drops to say 20 degrees, the metal barrel should shrink and cause the bore to enlarge - albeit slight.
This would make me think the load may "loosen up" over time and therefore not be as accurate as when first loaded . . . .
To give an accurate reply to that question what powder and what type bullet has to be known.
I did a set of tests to determine that for Blackhorn and a 250 gr sabot bullet combination, What I came up with was that any thing under 60 pounds had fliers and any thing over about 85 distorted something and had fliers. You also have to have a sabot bullet combination that is tight enough to hold the wad pressure on the powder so that a certain amount of burning takes place before the sabot bullet starts moving. Lee
I did a set of tests to determine that for Blackhorn and a 250 gr sabot bullet combination, What I came up with was that any thing under 60 pounds had fliers and any thing over about 85 distorted something and had fliers. You also have to have a sabot bullet combination that is tight enough to hold the wad pressure on the powder so that a certain amount of burning takes place before the sabot bullet starts moving. Lee
Good info, reason for asking is I'm shooting a Omega with 100g of 777 and shockwaves, very happy with them, except when loading the second shot, takes about every thing a person has to load. Anyway I went and tried using the second shot with powerbelts, load easier and shot close enough for a follow up shot but I am not all that impressed with the rest of there performance. I just got some Barnes TEZ bullets and Harvester Crush Rib sabots that I'm going to try. Loaded one up, nice even pressure, a bit easier the the shockwaves so now I just need to get to the range. Thanks for the info
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+1
I use a tight fitting sabot and put a golf ball or furniture knob on the end of the ramrod. Then I lean on it with both hands.
Sabots that are easy to load have never worked for me. I use the 250 grain SST/Shockwave in my Encore. The hard to load black sabots and the red sabots give the best accuracy. The three petal Hornady Low Drag sabots make 2-2.5" groups. The Super Glide sabots load very easily. They do not make groups; they make patterns like a shotgun.
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The Barnes TEZs are a great hunting bullet. I also tried the crush rib sabots with 290 grain TEZs but my gun did not like them, they loaded too easy and were not accurate. The supplied blue sabots with the TEZs worked well, 2 to 3 inch groups but MMP HPH-12 sabots worked the best with the TEZs, one inch groups at 100 yards. Post your results if you get a chance.
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Lee 9
I do not load tight sabots, I have never found the need - I do load snug sabots and I guess I have become accustomed to the the pressure I want.
If you ar load a sabot that is that tight or difficult to get down it is not necessary.
Lee, I think one of the things that you point out is really important...
If you load a sabot that takes greater than 85lbs of pressure or a very tight sabot, and some do load that tight, If you are shooting a rifle without some form of QLA just before the tip of the petals disappear down the bore take time to look at them. I think you will see the distortion of the petals that Lee speaks of. In my case it is usually the petal right under where the front sight might be, It will distort to the right and be compressed so much that the petal actually lengthens.
If your sabot grabs the lands and grooves and twists it way up the barrel instead of skipping lands and grooves it will shoot accurately as the combination can. Personally I think your bore condition has more to do with that than does the sabot.
We should all remember that the sabot will obturate to the bore.
There is no reason to fight a sabot down the bore...
I do not load tight sabots, I have never found the need - I do load snug sabots and I guess I have become accustomed to the the pressure I want.
If you ar load a sabot that is that tight or difficult to get down it is not necessary.
Lee, I think one of the things that you point out is really important...
If you load a sabot that takes greater than 85lbs of pressure or a very tight sabot, and some do load that tight, If you are shooting a rifle without some form of QLA just before the tip of the petals disappear down the bore take time to look at them. I think you will see the distortion of the petals that Lee speaks of. In my case it is usually the petal right under where the front sight might be, It will distort to the right and be compressed so much that the petal actually lengthens.
If your sabot grabs the lands and grooves and twists it way up the barrel instead of skipping lands and grooves it will shoot accurately as the combination can. Personally I think your bore condition has more to do with that than does the sabot.
We should all remember that the sabot will obturate to the bore.
There is no reason to fight a sabot down the bore...
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I was wondering that too. If they aren't the HPH-24s, then I would guess that they are very close. The blue sabot looks identical to the HPH-12s that I have, except that the blue ones load a little easier.
deerslayer68
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sabot loading
i think that sabot loading pressure sliding through a clean barrel should be appx. 10-20lbs pressure and seating pressure slightly more.
i was once told by someone to just seat the sabot lightly.......wrong answer.result-hangfire.
there needs to be some pressure of the sabot on top of the load(pellet/powder)
i think that sabot loading pressure sliding through a clean barrel should be appx. 10-20lbs pressure and seating pressure slightly more.
i was once told by someone to just seat the sabot lightly.......wrong answer.result-hangfire.
there needs to be some pressure of the sabot on top of the load(pellet/powder)
Mike
I am not sure what we are calling tight and loose here, I do know that I load a 60 pound wad pressure load in one stroke after using the short starter to start it. The short starter is not really necessary but between old habit and the fact [which I can not explain] that using one seems to help tighten my groups, I usually do. I know that the level of accuracy we are looking for is a bit different to.
I am not sure what we are calling tight and loose here, I do know that I load a 60 pound wad pressure load in one stroke after using the short starter to start it. The short starter is not really necessary but between old habit and the fact [which I can not explain] that using one seems to help tighten my groups, I usually do. I know that the level of accuracy we are looking for is a bit different to.
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Lee 9
Yep, I know exactly what you mean... what is 'snug' to me may not be that to someone else... My only point is that it not necessary to fight or pound a sabot down..
And then you go from the other end... what is to loose?
I never use a short starter to load sabots - do not even carry one with me in the shooting box... BUT - i do see it would be possible to get more consistent loading if you were to use the short starter everytime.
Correct, we have already been over that page--- although the other day I made a couple of shots at 75 and 78 yards you would have been proud of...
Yep, I know exactly what you mean... what is 'snug' to me may not be that to someone else... My only point is that it not necessary to fight or pound a sabot down..
And then you go from the other end... what is to loose?
I never use a short starter to load sabots - do not even carry one with me in the shooting box... BUT - i do see it would be possible to get more consistent loading if you were to use the short starter everytime.
Correct, we have already been over that page--- although the other day I made a couple of shots at 75 and 78 yards you would have been proud of...
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Maybe we can build a descriptive standard that would work. Something like this.
Loose - bullet/sabot can be easily started in the bore with thumb pressure and pushed down the full length of the bore with one hand on the ramrod.
Snug - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with very firm (but not uncomfortable) thumb pressure. It requires both hands on the rod to push the load down the bore but it can be done with one long smooth stroke
Tight - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with thumb pressure but it's uncomfortable enough that a short starter is preferred. Both hands and several short strokes are required to seat the load. A "T" or Ball on the ramrod makes for a comfortable push. Final seating without a T or ball on the rod is doable, but uncomfortable.
Very Tight - a short starter is a must to seat the bullet/sabot one bullet length into the bore. Considerable effort is required to seat the load in several short strokes. A "T" or BALL on the end of the ramrod is a must to seat the bullet on the powder.
Feel free to suggest improvements.
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Semi
Maybe we can build a descriptive standard that would work. Something like this.
Loose - bullet/sabot can be easily started in the bore with thumb pressure and pushed down the full length of the bore with one hand on the ramrod. That I would easily agree with as a loose fit.. the one hand being the key....
Snug - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with very firm (but not uncomfortable) thumb pressure. It requires both hands on the rod to push the load down the bore but it can be done with one long smooth stroke. that is exactly what I might call snug
Tight - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with thumb pressure but it's uncomfortable enough that a short starter is preferred. Both hands and several short strokes are required to seat the load. A "T" or Ball on the ramrod makes for a comfortable push. Final seating without a T or ball on the rod is doable, but uncomfortable. that would certainly be tight for me - teetering on to tight
Very Tight - a short starter is a must to seat the bullet/sabot one bullet length into the bore. Considerable effort is required to seat the load in several short strokes. A "T" or BALL on the end of the ramrod is a must to seat the bullet on the powder. This i would not do and i would probably pull the projectile rather load it
Feel free to suggest improvements.
Maybe we can build a descriptive standard that would work. Something like this.
Loose - bullet/sabot can be easily started in the bore with thumb pressure and pushed down the full length of the bore with one hand on the ramrod. That I would easily agree with as a loose fit.. the one hand being the key....
Snug - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with very firm (but not uncomfortable) thumb pressure. It requires both hands on the rod to push the load down the bore but it can be done with one long smooth stroke. that is exactly what I might call snug
Tight - bullet/sabot can be started in the bore with thumb pressure but it's uncomfortable enough that a short starter is preferred. Both hands and several short strokes are required to seat the load. A "T" or Ball on the ramrod makes for a comfortable push. Final seating without a T or ball on the rod is doable, but uncomfortable. that would certainly be tight for me - teetering on to tight
Very Tight - a short starter is a must to seat the bullet/sabot one bullet length into the bore. Considerable effort is required to seat the load in several short strokes. A "T" or BALL on the end of the ramrod is a must to seat the bullet on the powder. This i would not do and i would probably pull the projectile rather load it
Feel free to suggest improvements.
deerslayer68
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somebody invent a ramrod with an adjustable pressure gauge on it 
lol
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Don't laugh too loud because I have one of them.
It has a brass rod in a stainless handle with a spring inside and notches around the brass rod to indicate 10-20-30-40-50, and 60 pounds.
It is a 2 pc. rod and is heavy but works well for a range rod.
It has a brass rod in a stainless handle with a spring inside and notches around the brass rod to indicate 10-20-30-40-50, and 60 pounds.
It is a 2 pc. rod and is heavy but works well for a range rod.
deerslayer68
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awesome derfhunter......from your experience what pressure have you had good success with?
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I have only used it at one range session with my savage and have had mixed results depending on what type of sabot and what gr bullets I am using. I try keeping a loading pressure in the 40-50 pound range for smokeless. I shoot my savage dirty and think if you get to tight a fit the loading pressure varies to much on a dirty bore. Also when it gets really cold you can still get it loaded if it reached 60 pound.
This thread is getting better. I think this is a two-fold issue. You have loose, snug, tight, and very tight fitting sabots but then there's also the amount of seating pressure applied to the top of the powder charge. A very tight sabot just sitting on the charge isn't going to be effective and I'm not sure a loose sabot seated to 70# or so on top of the charge might not maintain that same pressure over time.
I'm hoping to pick up a used Chatillion force gauge and hope to test variuos loading pressures for tightness and seating pressures - I have several sabot/bullet combinations to try this year. I'm still on the fence on a clean versus fouled barrel. I can make a clean barrel pretty much the same every time easier than I can make a swabbed barrel the same. And shooting BH209 30-50 shots without cleaning really makes me wonder whether #50 is going into the same hole as #2. But I do hope it's true.
I'm hoping to pick up a used Chatillion force gauge and hope to test variuos loading pressures for tightness and seating pressures - I have several sabot/bullet combinations to try this year. I'm still on the fence on a clean versus fouled barrel. I can make a clean barrel pretty much the same every time easier than I can make a swabbed barrel the same. And shooting BH209 30-50 shots without cleaning really makes me wonder whether #50 is going into the same hole as #2. But I do hope it's true.
