PRB lube Yeah, again!

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Renegadehunter

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Oct 12, 2018
Messages
210
I've read of people that have used it and said it worked ok. Are you having some kind of issue or just like to mess around with trying different things?
 

Jackalope

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Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
5
I've used it before and didn't think it worked that well. I mainly use 100% mink oil.
 

Overdue Bill

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Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
69
I've read of people that have used it and said it worked ok. Are you having some kind of issue or just like to mess around with trying different things?
No, no particular issues. I guess you nailed it when you said "mess around with different things". Tks I really don't shoot that much but I am real fussy about a clean rifle and just wondered if this would help. I usually use commercial lubes Used Bore Butter a lot but I've seen so much negative about it---.
 

Renegadehunter

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Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
210
I also like to experiment with different lubes. There are certainly different variations in how quickly and how well they clean up. Here's what I've found with a few of them. I speak only about shooting with them, I use Barricade for storage. I also swab every shot, so ease of loading if you don't like to swab I can't really speak about. I will also say that I get flash rust every single time I use warm water, let alone hot, so I much prefer being able to use room temp water or cold for my final cleaning.

First off, I'll apologize for being in a chatty mood this morning. I didn't mean for this post to be so long when I started. Ha ha

Bore butter, Natural Loob 1000, etc.:
I found that hot water sped up the process when cleaning, but it seemed like I never could get super clean patches at the end of my cleaning procedure, there was always still trace amounts of a black or brown color. After oiling the bore and letting it sit for a couple of days I would always get a pretty dirty patch out of it when I checked it. I believe the chap stick style lubes turn into a really hard crust when shot and is difficult to get all of it out of the bore during normal cleaning. I believe this is probably what you are experiencing since you made the comment "I'm real fussy about a clean rifle". With oil in the bore it would dissolve some of it and that would show on a patch a few days later. Never had any issues of rust though, the cleaning was getting the BP residue neutralized it seems. When I quit using BB types I still saw this for many cleanings after, but it did eventually stop. Must've finally got all of it out and wasn't introducing new into the bore. I think a good bore polishing with 0000 steel would greatly speed up the removal of it. Accuracy was actually pretty good when using it, unless using store bought pre-lubed patches...many times I got old ones that resulted in the patches not holding up and giving my fliers.

Track of the Wolf mink oil:
One of my favorite lubes to date, especially for a hunting lube. Cleans up much faster with hot water rather than cold, the hot turns what remains of it into a liquid and it comes right out. I use room temp anyway to avoid flash rust, and it definitely takes longer, but I can get nice clean patches when done. Very accurate if I lightly apply it, it is very slick and doesn't take much.

Olive oil & bees wax (I mixed them at home, 1/3 bees wax 2/3 olive oil:
Works fine, but also requires hot water to clean up faster. Does take a bit to get clean patches, but was able to get to that point. Accuracy for me was minute of venison...fine for hunting but your not going to proudly post your targets. Haven't tried a real light application of it like I do with the mink oil yet.

Hoppes BP solvent and patch lube:
I actually used this for club shoots. Applied so I was using a damp patch that nothing could be wrung out of it, fine for frequent shooting but not something I would load and leave on the powder for hunting. I can say that this one loads fine without swabbing, but I found I had to swab every other shot to maintain good accuracy for some reason (I use a tight patch so don't know why I couldn't maintain consistent bore condition). Very quick and easy clean up for me, even using room temp water. Accuracy was pretty good, more than fine for just ringing steel at a club shoot. If I didn't hunt, this might very well be all I would ever use.

Birchwood-Casey #77:
Pretty much exactly like the Hoppes BP, except I didn't get very good accuracy from it. It is quite a bit more runny than the Hoppes BP.

Castor oil & denatured alcohol, Dutch Schultz style dry patch:
Honestly one of my favorites. Mine shot really well at a 6:1 ratio. Most accurate thing I've tried in my rifle (mink oil does come really close). If you're unfamiliar with this kind of lube, what you do is mix 1 part Castor oil (health food store) to 6 parts denatured alcohol. You can play with the ratio, most get best accuracy somewhere between 5:1 to 8:1 ratio. Mix whatever ratio together and shake the heck out of it. Dip patches into it and then lay them out on wax paper or a screen and let the alcohol evaporate off. Leaves a slightly slick feeling patch just lubed with castor oil. This same method can also be used with Ballistol and water. Cleans up very easily for me with room temp water. Some use this as a wet lube for repeated shooting, meaning they dip their patches right before shooting and let them stay wet rather than letting the alcohol evaporate off, and say it doesn't require swabbing. I found that the castor oil / denatured alcohol breaks down a patch fairly quickly, about a month to 3 months, so I only lube up patches a week before I'm going to use them. Not the most convenient...but the accuracy I get with them makes me keep doing it. I have not tried the Ballistol/water combo yet, but will soon.

I haven't tried it yet, but keep hearing nothing but good about Jon's Frontier Patch and rust preventative lube. I will be trying it soon too if he still has some available.
 

Hanshi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
795
I haven't tried all that many lubes in my BP career but have used spit (excellent), Bore Butter (lousy), Crisco (nah!), Hoppes (wonderful lube) and Mink oil (excellent).

Quite a while back I settled on just two; Hoppes for general shooting and TOW mink oil for the woods. Using snug prb I can shoot many rounds without bore swabbing. The patch material I use most is unbleached canvas. At around .024" it's perfect for the .016" round bottom rifling of the Rice barrels. Haven't tried Jon's patch lube yet.
 

Squint

Member
FML Supporter
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
23
Location
MT
I also like to experiment with different lubes. There are certainly different variations in how quickly and how well they clean up. Here's what I've found with a few of them. I speak only about shooting with them, I use Barricade for storage. I also swab every shot, so ease of loading if you don't like to swab I can't really speak about. I will also say that I get flash rust every single time I use warm water, let alone hot, so I much prefer being able to use room temp water or cold for my final cleaning.

First off, I'll apologize for being in a chatty mood this morning. I didn't mean for this post to be so long when I started. Ha ha

Bore butter, Natural Loob 1000, etc.:
I found that hot water sped up the process when cleaning, but it seemed like I never could get super clean patches at the end of my cleaning procedure, there was always still trace amounts of a black or brown color. After oiling the bore and letting it sit for a couple of days I would always get a pretty dirty patch out of it when I checked it. I believe the chap stick style lubes turn into a really hard crust when shot and is difficult to get all of it out of the bore during normal cleaning. I believe this is probably what you are experiencing since you made the comment "I'm real fussy about a clean rifle". With oil in the bore it would dissolve some of it and that would show on a patch a few days later. Never had any issues of rust though, the cleaning was getting the BP residue neutralized it seems. When I quit using BB types I still saw this for many cleanings after, but it did eventually stop. Must've finally got all of it out and wasn't introducing new into the bore. I think a good bore polishing with 0000 steel would greatly speed up the removal of it. Accuracy was actually pretty good when using it, unless using store bought pre-lubed patches...many times I got old ones that resulted in the patches not holding up and giving my fliers.

Track of the Wolf mink oil:
One of my favorite lubes to date, especially for a hunting lube. Cleans up much faster with hot water rather than cold, the hot turns what remains of it into a liquid and it comes right out. I use room temp anyway to avoid flash rust, and it definitely takes longer, but I can get nice clean patches when done. Very accurate if I lightly apply it, it is very slick and doesn't take much.

Olive oil & bees wax (I mixed them at home, 1/3 bees wax 2/3 olive oil:
Works fine, but also requires hot water to clean up faster. Does take a bit to get clean patches, but was able to get to that point. Accuracy for me was minute of venison...fine for hunting but your not going to proudly post your targets. Haven't tried a real light application of it like I do with the mink oil yet.

Hoppes BP solvent and patch lube:
I actually used this for club shoots. Applied so I was using a damp patch that nothing could be wrung out of it, fine for frequent shooting but not something I would load and leave on the powder for hunting. I can say that this one loads fine without swabbing, but I found I had to swab every other shot to maintain good accuracy for some reason (I use a tight patch so don't know why I couldn't maintain consistent bore condition). Very quick and easy clean up for me, even using room temp water. Accuracy was pretty good, more than fine for just ringing steel at a club shoot. If I didn't hunt, this might very well be all I would ever use.

Birchwood-Casey #77:
Pretty much exactly like the Hoppes BP, except I didn't get very good accuracy from it. It is quite a bit more runny than the Hoppes BP.

Castor oil & denatured alcohol, Dutch Schultz style dry patch:
Honestly one of my favorites. Mine shot really well at a 6:1 ratio. Most accurate thing I've tried in my rifle (mink oil does come really close). If you're unfamiliar with this kind of lube, what you do is mix 1 part Castor oil (health food store) to 6 parts denatured alcohol. You can play with the ratio, most get best accuracy somewhere between 5:1 to 8:1 ratio. Mix whatever ratio together and shake the heck out of it. Dip patches into it and then lay them out on wax paper or a screen and let the alcohol evaporate off. Leaves a slightly slick feeling patch just lubed with castor oil. This same method can also be used with Ballistol and water. Cleans up very easily for me with room temp water. Some use this as a wet lube for repeated shooting, meaning they dip their patches right before shooting and let them stay wet rather than letting the alcohol evaporate off, and say it doesn't require swabbing. I found that the castor oil / denatured alcohol breaks down a patch fairly quickly, about a month to 3 months, so I only lube up patches a week before I'm going to use them. Not the most convenient...but the accuracy I get with them makes me keep doing it. I have not tried the Ballistol/water combo yet, but will soon.

I haven't tried it yet, but keep hearing nothing but good about Jon's Frontier Patch and rust preventative lube. I will be trying it soon too if he still has some available.
Good morning Renegadehunter. I too spend a lot of time experimenting with different patch material, patch lube's, types of lead and anything else I can think of that keeps my interest up and gives me something to do. About two weeks ago, before the weather got bad again, my shooting buddy and I went out and spent two hours testing different lubes. In those two hours, I shot 15 times, three at a time, walk up, check targets, cover bulletholes, and try again, all at 50 yards with a fairly good rest. Of the ones tested so far, M.A. P., gave the best group. I still have hand cleaner, (fast orange), wonder lube 1000, frontier gander's, and Dutch Schultz lube to test. Last summer I had a hair-raising experience while using patches done with Dutch's lube, when they started some grass fires, So I don't plan to use that for hunting but perhaps only target work and even then I'm suspicious. Right now things are damp here in Montana and that makes a difference. There's not many muzzleloader shooters were I live, the nearest club shoots are 45 miles away and aren't that numerous anyway. We do have a small NRA range about a mile from where I live in a very small town. It's pretty primitive, but it is a safe place to shoot. It's up to me to provide my own challenges. The different leads I have to test are pure lead, water pipe, and wheel weights. Any of the lubes I have tested, would have killed a deer at my 50 to 60 yard range. They didn't all shoot to the same place, but sights are adjustable, so I could make any of them work. It's only when I get in competition that I need the best lube for the smallest group. As I do have beeswax and Olive oil, I'm interested in making some of that up and try it too. I tried Hoppies blackpowder cleaner in the past and I wasn't that happy with it, I use it for a swipe once in a while when I'm shooting. I'm doing all of this experimentation using triple 7 Powder. In the past everything I did was Flintlock and black powder, now I'm breaking in a brand-new percussion. It does add spice to the game. As a footnote, with this powder, I never had to make one swipe, and the 15th charge was just as easy to load as the second.
Squint


Squint
 

Renegadehunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
210
Good morning Renegadehunter. I too spend a lot of time experimenting with different patch material, patch lube's, types of lead and anything else I can think of that keeps my interest up and gives me something to do. About two weeks ago, before the weather got bad again, my shooting buddy and I went out and spent two hours testing different lubes. In those two hours, I shot 15 times, three at a time, walk up, check targets, cover bulletholes, and try again, all at 50 yards with a fairly good rest. Of the ones tested so far, M.A. P., gave the best group. I still have hand cleaner, (fast orange), wonder lube 1000, frontier gander's, and Dutch Schultz lube to test. Last summer I had a hair-raising experience while using patches done with Dutch's lube, when they started some grass fires, So I don't plan to use that for hunting but perhaps only target work and even then I'm suspicious. Right now things are damp here in Montana and that makes a difference. There's not many muzzleloader shooters were I live, the nearest club shoots are 45 miles away and aren't that numerous anyway. We do have a small NRA range about a mile from where I live in a very small town. It's pretty primitive, but it is a safe place to shoot. It's up to me to provide my own challenges. The different leads I have to test are pure lead, water pipe, and wheel weights. Any of the lubes I have tested, would have killed a deer at my 50 to 60 yard range. They didn't all shoot to the same place, but sights are adjustable, so I could make any of them work. It's only when I get in competition that I need the best lube for the smallest group. As I do have beeswax and Olive oil, I'm interested in making some of that up and try it too. I tried Hoppies blackpowder cleaner in the past and I wasn't that happy with it, I use it for a swipe once in a while when I'm shooting. I'm doing all of this experimentation using triple 7 Powder. In the past everything I did was Flintlock and black powder, now I'm breaking in a brand-new percussion. It does add spice to the game. As a footnote, with this powder, I never had to make one swipe, and the 15th charge was just as easy to load as the second.
Squint


Squint
I also find that experimenting really keeps my interest up, it makes me look more forward to shooting to see what the results will be.
A friend of mine uses Triple 7 powder and says the same about fouling, he can load without worrying about swabbing.
I was easily able to do this with the Hoppes, but accuracy wasn't good after a couple of shots. No matter what lube I try or patch/ball combo, my renegade just starts throwing them everywhere after two or three shots without swabbing. I've heard over and over that a nice tight patch/ball fit will result in the fouling being scrapped down on top of the powder and result in a consistent bore condition, but my rifle just doesn't stay accurate. For whatever reason I have to swab to maintain good accuracy with that rifle. I found this with 2f powder but have recently switched to 3f powder, perhaps I should do a no swabbing test again.
I haven't noticed any smoldering from my patches when using castor oil/denatured alcohol, but it does result in a very lightly lubed patch. Were you using that or Ballistol/water? I generally hunt with a mink oil patch and just use the Dutch patches when trying to make tiny groups on paper, although it would be a good hunting lube other than the risk of starting a fire of course.
 

Squint

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Joined
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Messages
23
Location
MT
I also find that experimenting really keeps my interest up, it makes me look more forward to shooting to see what the results will be.
A friend of mine uses Triple 7 powder and says the same about fouling, he can load without worrying about swabbing.
I was easily able to do this with the Hoppes, but accuracy wasn't good after a couple of shots. No matter what lube I try or patch/ball combo, my renegade just starts throwing them everywhere after two or three shots without swabbing. I've heard over and over that a nice tight patch/ball fit will result in the fouling being scrapped down on top of the powder and result in a consistent bore condition, but my rifle just doesn't stay accurate. For whatever reason I have to swab to maintain good accuracy with that rifle. I found this with 2f powder but have recently switched to 3f powder, perhaps I should do a no swabbing test again.
I haven't noticed any smoldering from my patches when using castor oil/denatured alcohol, but it does result in a very lightly lubed patch. Were you using that or Ballistol/water? I generally hunt with a mink oil patch and just use the Dutch patches when trying to make tiny groups on paper, although it would be a good hunting lube other than the risk of starting a fire of course.
That patch that caught on fire was Ballistol and water, and I let them dry fairly good before I tried using them, because I didn't want the water in there very bad. Me and my friend Tim, who shoots percussion were out just yesterday and finished up our own test for what we had for different lubes. These are the ones we used; frontier brand from this site; Hermit Homestead crafters lube from Tennessee; Bore butter; Kerosene; MAP; and a mixture of one third beeswax, two thirds olive oil.

We both come out with about the same rating. The top three were, number one was MAP--number two was bore butter.--Number three was kerosene. Tim also tried hand cleaner, but it didn't make the cut. My rifle is 01 in 48 and I'm sure his is 1 in 60. We both were using 777 powder. It seemed like the slicker lubes weren't as good. Each test was conducted with three shots from a good rest at 50 yards. In my percussion, MAP got a group of about two and half inches which isn't real good but I need to conduct more testing. The worst lube tested would've been a 7 inch group at 50 yards. When the weather clears again I will go out with MAP for a lube and work it up and down for a tighter group.
Our entire shooting session, which was 15 or 16 shots each, was conducted without ever cleaning the bore. I will, down the road, try it with swabbing between shots so that I'm always shooting a clean barrel, though the amount of fouling I get out when I go home and cleaned doesn't even turn the patch gray..
Squint
 

Squint

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1st thing I'd do is ditch the 777. Did you recover your patches? That will tell you what is going on.
The patches all came through with flying colors that we could find, both square cut one's and bought-en round. Both measure the same, fairly close, and are pillow ticking. I will experiment with black a little later this spring when the weather clears up, but I am duly impressed with the 777, I've had it for years, and of course it wouldn't work in my Flintlock. Can you give me a clue why you would ditch it? Next timeout I plan to set up my chronograph when the weather is a little nicer and just see what they're doing, but being most of this is just for shooting pleasure and muzzleloader club events, high velocity with lots of kick isn't necessary. I originally used the 777 and a percussion pistol or it worked fairly well.
 

FrontierGander

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777 isn't a very good round ball powder. I find T7 to be inconsistent. If anything, Pyrodex has always out performed T7 with patched round balls in my gun. Over 20 years of muzzleloading and I've only shot 4lbs of T7 because its been such an inconsistent headache.

50 yard group with T7 from not to long about. Very poor accuracy for the rifle I was using, but thats the way T7 always goes for me.
89731645_10157437790077875_6132747260376645632_n.jpg
 

Squint

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777 isn't a very good round ball powder. I find T7 to be inconsistent. If anything, Pyrodex has always out performed T7 with patched round balls in my gun. Over 20 years of muzzleloading and I've only shot 4lbs of T7 because its been such an inconsistent headache.

50 yard group with T7 from not to long about. Very poor accuracy for the rifle I was using, but thats the way T7 always goes for me.
View attachment 1609
I do have some pyrodex, Both RS and P and I will try it, I've been trying to save my black for my Flintlock as the closest source by the pound is 400 miles. I could put an order together, but at a spry 81, I wouldn't bet I'd get it all used up. It don't appear to me that the next curve in the road is that far ahead. All of the posts I've seen on the corrosion factor of Pyrodex doesn't really get me too excited, I've used it through the years in a different Percussion and never had any problem with cleanup which I always did at the end of the day, except when hunting and there I didn't use a fouling shot, so I could keep it loaded. Generally during hunting season the humidity factor in Montana is fairly low. Thanks Frontier, for the suggestion, we're supposed to be nice and warm this coming week and I will try and get out for a go with it.
Squint
 

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