Hmmm. I know NOTHING about your outfitter, but he must know NOTHING about a Savage 10 ML-II. He SHOULD have asked you the type of muzzleloader you would be using and ITS credentials instead of going into all that! There are a LOT of different muzzleloaders and lumping them all into one big pile of inadequacy is just plain stupid. Would he prefer you used a 45-70 Ruger #1? Well, the 10ML-II will do anything IT will do! He seems to be speaking a little out of firearm ignorance. I bet you CAN find an outfitter that would WELCOME the challenge! That one doesn't seem up to it. Sounds like he is talking down to you a little..
Brown Bear and the 10 ML-II
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Hmmm. I know NOTHING about your outfitter, but he must know NOTHING about a Savage 10 ML-II. He SHOULD have asked you the type of muzzleloader you would be using and ITS credentials instead of going into all that! There are a LOT of different muzzleloaders and lumping them all into one big pile of inadequacy is just plain stupid. Would he prefer you used a 45-70 Ruger #1? Well, the 10ML-II will do anything IT will do! He seems to be speaking a little out of firearm ignorance. I bet you CAN find an outfitter that would WELCOME the challenge! That one doesn't seem up to it. Sounds like he is talking down to you a little..
A
Anonymous
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nugbuk said:
During the hunt, Kern crouched down and fired two shots at a bear, wounding it, police said.
As the bear fled into brush, the head guide ordered his assistant guide to shoot the injured bear to stop it from getting away. As the assistant guide fired his .338-caliber rifle, Kern stood up and was shot in the head, Wilkinson said.
How is this a bear issue?
Man.... that is just wrong! :cry: 
Very sad ! Did the bullet go through the bear before hitting him in the head?
A close range head shot with a .338???uke:
That whole story is just terrible! I cant imagine how all involved feel about that terrible accident!
Very sad ! Did the bullet go through the bear before hitting him in the head?
A close range head shot with a .338???
uke: That whole story is just terrible! I cant imagine how all involved feel about that terrible accident!
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Doohan said:
You must be joking. :arrow:
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I don't know if he was talking down to me but what I have found is that alot of outfitters are self proclaimed experts. Some are, and rightfully so they make their living hunting. What I find interesting though is that many many people who are into hunting are not into balistics. They might do some range work before a big $$$ hunt and they certainly aren't into determining kinetic energy charts for their chosen weapon. They pick out one of the new superdooperultra mags, sight it in with a tefloncoatedxxxframedpartitionbondedcore bullet and they are ready to go. To me it is another facet of the sport which I am passionate about. I can only attempt to enlighten the less fortunate. I banged my head against the wall today on another site arguing about the legalization of smokeless in NJ. I don't know if I made any head way but if one person learned something they didn't know it was worth it!big6x6 said:
I'm not done talking with this outfitter as I have a good history with him. Hopefully I will convince him to see the light and then the ball will be back in my court as to what weapon to hunt with...
Well the big .375 DOES win here in all areas. I could send a 300gr Sierra to 2600fps with good accuracy with my .375 with a 24 inch tube and with a 26" barrel you can probably get 2700fps if need be. So you have a LOT going for you with a .375 H&H including a better trajectory. I suspect the .375 H&H is PROBABLY middle ground for calibers here. Some would take a .338 and others going to the .416. STILL....A 2300fps 300gr .458 projectile out of the Savage is nothing to sneeze at and I'd rather have it than any .338 on the block.
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Heck no-- the Savage wins the "big hole award," and Chuck Hill gets the "best dressed award." 8)
With a 350 gr. .458 X bullet, you might like things better. Chuck, you still get the best dressed award!
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RandyWakeman said:
What kind of energy levels are we talking about here if we get things started between 2300-2400 fps. I would like to know if a load such as this would be effective out to 200 yds for its intended purpose
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Energy is not an issue--
it is as effective as a .458 WinMag is shooting the same bullet-- which is exactly what the .458 350 gr. "X" is.
it is as effective as a .458 WinMag is shooting the same bullet-- which is exactly what the .458 350 gr. "X" is.
Any area I am concerned about.
Energy is ALWAYS an issue. It just isn't the ONLY issue.
So you can get, and have shot an ACCURATE 2500fps 350gr Barnes X load out of the Savage?
While gasoline prices soar, glue prices seem to remain very affordable.
A
Anonymous
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No, just the Acebo-Iv's you sent me to snort.
Sub 3/4 MOA, Barnes X 350, @ 2340 fps is what I have shot.
Adequate for the druggist man in the van?
big6x6 said:
:lol: :wink: Very good!
I have never hunted browns, I have killed 3 griz and all before I ever shot anything as big as 30/06. Sometimes we just over think and worry too excess about this stuff. Sometimes we just grow up. I know how fast my old .308 killed them griz and have full confidence that I and the gun could do it again. In the same breath, I have out grown the immortality of youth and grew enough whiskers on my chin to have shaken hands with Mr. Murphy more than once and seldom under benign circumstances.
My personal choice would start at a minimum 300 WM and run up to the 375 H&H. Given my druthers though the gun I'd pack is my .338 WM, hands down my favorite caliber...
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Nug, Thank You very much for taking the time to do that!!! As much comfort as I find knowing there's a 416 Rem behind me, I find an equal amount of discomfort thinking the guide might be a little anxious with the trigger given the less than normal conditions.
VENISONEATER,
Just wondered if you have loaded and left the rifle for a couple of days?
Mine use to change point of impact[wasn't smokeless], but thea are all different.
I also find it "amazing" that a plastic sabot can survive this kind of pressure!
I like Randy's idea of the bigger bullet, the 350 X should do a fine job!
Good Hunting!
No-BS
Just wondered if you have loaded and left the rifle for a couple of days?
Mine use to change point of impact[wasn't smokeless], but thea are all different.
I also find it "amazing" that a plastic sabot can survive this kind of pressure!
I like Randy's idea of the bigger bullet, the 350 X should do a fine job!
Good Hunting!
No-BS
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BCS thanks for responding! I'm still testing the waters for the feasibility of such an endeavor. Ideally I would like to discharge the gun daily but that may not be doable. But your question would need to be tested should I commit to doing this. Again thanks for your response.
Jim
Jim
VENISONEATR,
I had a 54 cal that when you left it loaded over night,[sabot load] would shoot 7"s left at 100. Over a 5 day period, I had two nice groups, seven inches apart. Clean versus dirty barrel................after many hundreds of shots thru this barrel, I finally found that if you lube the barrel after loading, and every two days while hunting, the point of impact was 7"s right. One nice group, none to the left. They say don't lube your barrel, but don't be afraid to try something different! It worked for me!
I had a 54 cal that when you left it loaded over night,[sabot load] would shoot 7"s left at 100. Over a 5 day period, I had two nice groups, seven inches apart. Clean versus dirty barrel................after many hundreds of shots thru this barrel, I finally found that if you lube the barrel after loading, and every two days while hunting, the point of impact was 7"s right. One nice group, none to the left. They say don't lube your barrel, but don't be afraid to try something different!
It worked for me!
