BH 209 legal in Utah!

[txhunter58]

Had to ask 3 times, but finally got a for sure answer that BH 209 IS legal in Utah. Here is the response I got:

David,
I was asked by the front desk to check into this and respond to you. I have contacted the company and looked at the literature and this powder meets the legal specifications in Utah. Please feel free to use it for hunting big game. Contact me directly if you have further questions or concerns.



Mike Fowlks
Chief of Law Enforcement
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
1594 W. North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114

 

[Busta]

Had to ask 3 times, but finally got a for sure answer that BH 209 IS legal in Utah. Here is the response I got:

David,
I was asked by the front desk to check into this and respond to you. I have contacted the company and looked at the literature and this powder meets the legal specifications in Utah. Please feel free to use it for hunting big game. Contact me directly if you have further questions or concerns.



Mike Fowlks
Chief of Law Enforcement
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
1594 W. North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114

txhunter58,

I would print that response off and carry a laminated copy with you while hunting. That way when you run into one of his officers, you shouldn't have a problem.

I have found out over the years, that all the DOW/DNR CO's are not always on the same page as the Brass at headquarters.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Bucker]

laws

have found out over the years, that all the DOW/DNR CO's are not always on the same page as the Brass at headquarters

Busta you have got to be kidding me?

 

[greatbasin]

To me BH 209 is just like any other BP sub. and because it's not a nitrocellulose smokless powder it would be as accecpted same as Pyrodex or 777?
What I would be more likely to ask about is, is there any restrictions on ignition types? because that is not mentioned at all in the regs.

 

[txhunter58]

Where did you hear for sure it is not a nitrocellulose based powder? The company won't tell what is in it, and I have heard from some ameteur chemists that they thought it does contain nitrocellulose.

I have not seen anything reliable in print that would confirm it either way. Have you?

In the past, I emailed both Utah and Western powders and ask them that question. Until yesterday, I had not received a valid answer from Utah (they would just send me a copy of the regs), and never did get an answer from Western Powders.

Couldn't have heard from anyone more reliable than the chief of law enforcement. Did print a copy for the future too........

 

[greatbasin]

txhunter58,
I've never heard anything from anybody about what BH 209 is made of. However, I would say that it appears to me that BH 209 is marketed as a black powder substitute...wouldn't you agree? It dosen't do anything the other subs can't do. It doesn't create dangerously high pressure spikes like centerfire powder. Maybe it's a little less corrosive...not a big deal IMO. That doesn't make it any more effective during a hunt so I wouldn't have thought it any differently than any of the other subs. Really, I wouldn't have even thought about asking UDNR if any particular brand of BP sub was banned, because most states ban types of components...not brands. So, like I said before I'd be calling UDNR about ignition types because it is not mentioned at all in the regs...but hey that's just me. One thing is, if they say no shotshell primers allowed...the letter stating the use of BH 209 is allowed isn't worth a lot because it won't ignite.

 

[txhunter58]

"Really, I wouldn't have even thought about asking UDNR if any particular brand of BP sub was banned, because most states ban types of components"

Blackhorn 209 is different than another other "sub" out there. It is cleaned only with cleaners that normally are only used for smokeless powders, is fairly noncorrosive, and it basically leaves no residue (Hmm). There has also been a big debate whether or not blackhorn contains nitrocellulose, and Utah specifically bans any powder with nitrocellulose. So they not only specifically ban components, but also specific types of powders. Just figured it was prudent to find out for sure if it was legal or not.

And inlines and 209 primers are allowed in Utah, so since BH 209 is legal, it shouldn't be a problem to ignite it.

Not that I will get the opportunity to use it any time soon in Utah! But one can always hope.

 

[sabotloader]

txhunter58

I have a published chemical analysis of it at home, i am on the road - it is nitro-cell and it does have a small amount of sulfur in it...

If this thread is still active when I get home i will post the information source

 

[greatbasin]

"Really, I wouldn't have even thought about asking UDNR if any particular brand of BP sub was banned, because most states ban types of components"

Blackhorn 209 is different than another other "sub" out there. It is cleaned only with cleaners that normally are only used for smokeless powders, is fairly noncorrosive, and it basically leaves no residue (Hmm). There has also been a big debate whether or not blackhorn contains nitrocellulose, and Utah specifically bans any powder with nitrocellulose. So they not only specifically ban components, but also specific types of powders. Just figured it was prudent to find out for sure if it was legal or not.

And inlines and 209 primers are allowed in Utah, so since BH 209 is legal, it shouldn't be a problem to ignite it.

Not that I will get the opportunity to use it any time soon in Utah! But one can always hope.

Cool, I hope you and I both get's use it in Utah sometime soon. When I do cash in my points you can bet I'll be rechecking the regs.

 

[txhunter58]

Here is an email someone got a couple of days ago from Western powders. Double confirmation is always good.

Mike,

Thank you for the e-mail. Yes it is legal. The governing authorities that determine powder classifications have determined Blackhorn 209 to be Propellant Solid, UN0499. This is the same classification given to Triple 7, Shockley's Gold and all the other black powder substitutes. Smokeless Powder is classified as Powder, Smokeless UN0161.

I hope this clears things up.

Best regards,
Don Luhr
Western Powders

 

[saxman1]

txhunter58

I have a published chemical analysis of it at home, i am on the road - it is nitro-cell and it does have a small amount of sulfur in it...

If this thread is still active when I get home i will post the information source

Be careful out there my friend,get back safe.

 

[UtahRob]

Never seen a DWR officer ever look at anyone's powder . Been stopped many times for my license or just to BS . But i no longer use BH209 , i use 777 .

 

[UtahRob]

To me BH 209 is just like any other BP sub. and because it's not a nitrocellulose smokless powder it would be as accecpted same as Pyrodex or 777?
What I would be more likely to ask about is, is there any restrictions on ignition types? because that is not mentioned at all in the regs.

True , i us a .25 acp conversion in Utah and NOTHING in the reg say i can't or anything about ignition . Never had any DWR officers look at my primers/brass either . Sometimes its just better not to ask . LIke Busta said , you will get 5 different answers from 5 different officers anyway , and most are made up on the spot .