....Whats wrong with .............and.............

[hawgslayer]

These questions I'm about to ask is not intended to bash any product or what shooters shoot :!: :!: :!:
:? :? :?
I see allot about BLACKHORN POWDER, TRIPLE 7, PYRODEX, BARNES BULLETS and a bunch of other different primers, powder and bullets. I hardly see anything about AMEREICAN PIONEER POWDER, REMINGTON KLEANBORE PRIMERS OR POWERBELT BULLETS. The reason I'm asking this is because I used to use PYRODEX and Remington STS Primers and that combo only made my shooting less enjoyable and more work. Yet they are mentioned allot more then ....... I changed to app and remington kleanbore primers and now I shoot round after round after round with out fighting to seat the SECOND ROUND and working hard to get rid of the burn/crud ring. APP cleans up with water and doesn't need Hoppe's. After the 2nd round I swab with a spit patch and continue to shoot and swab after every shot. I don't pull my breech plug until the 10 round. No fighting with that either.
:?: :?: I can't under stand why these components arent mentioned alittle more :?: :?: I find this set up so much easier then fighting to clean or seat the 2nd bullet.
Thanks to all who reply and have a great season :!: :!: :!: :!:

 

[Lee 9]

APP is about down far enough in use that not many of us use it any more.
Reasons, it attracts moisture and becomes erratic so the groups are awful when it happens. It also is the weakest powder on the market as far as I know. 777 is 400 FPS faster if you don't get crudring and so is Blackhorn 209 and it has all the advantages of the APP powders and is cleaner and 400 FPS faster. It also has one disadvantage it is the most expensive as well as the best and some people don't want to operate on that level. Lee

 

[lane]

Hawg

APP/Pinnacle is FINE powder, and works great, just like you've said. many of us here still use it-myself included.

APP powders like to be VERY Firmly compressed to give best results. And most of us like to keep an extra dessicant/silica gel pack in the powder cans to keep the powder moisture free.

Some say it is very hygroscopic=sucks water out of the air like a spong.
But I have Never experienced this in 9years of using it :wink:

I currently use BH209 cause I like it better, and use my other =cheaper powders at the range ,working up loads. then I fine tune with the BlackGold BH209 8)

 

[sabotloader]

hawgslayer

Man! think Lee just about covered the whole thing in a very short statement.

You can not even find APP in this area, mainly because very few people would buy it because of the past track record. You can find Shockey Gold and I have used some of that but could not match the performance that i was getting from GOEX or T7.

While PowerBelts are available even made here in Idaho, they for me are one of the least reliable bullets that are offered - if you choose to shoot them with decent velocity - if you choose to shoot them at slow speeds, at or near round ball speeds, they will perform very well.

Kleenbore primers are difficult to find here bascically because of the price, Winchester T7 primers are availble but they are sold at a discounted price by Wal-Mart.

After the 2nd round I swab with a spit patch and continue to shoot and swab after every shot. I don't pull my breech plug until the 10 round. No fighting with that either.

Truth be know I do the same thing with T7 - get more velocity, very easiy to clean, never pull or loosen the BP until I am done and it is a lot less suseptible to moisture.

All that said there are people that think I am crazy for not shooting BH also... so in the end it comes down to 'Lane's' comment - what works for you and what you have confidence in. I am in another rut also - I still drive Fords...

 

[coop2564]

There's nothing wrong or bad with your setup it will kill game but IMO is not the best nor is it maximizing your odds and chances. APP is slower in velocity not maximizing your trajectory. Blackhorn is faster you do not need to swab between shots (quicker 2nd shot if needed), if you miss cleaning something its not going to rust up your gun. And its very easy to clean. I have used APP its a fine powder just doesn't give me the best chance to take home my buck. I spend a lot of money time and energy hunting, so the load I use is what I feel best maximizes my odds at taking that animal under any conditions I feel I might in counter. Again people hunt for many reason, needs and desires. Many bullets and powders such as pellets do not allow me to maximize my guns abilities. I certainly don't expect everyone to share my thoughts they are just my thoughts, many hunters are type hunters were the type weapon or type hunting stalking etc. are more important than the game they take. So there's just different strokes for different folks I guess. Just my 2 cents!

 

[lane]

Hawg

Lots of us like to tinker and try all the cutting edge stuff-bullets and powders.
Sure APP is not the fastest powder on the market, But if it is working well for you, there's really no need to "Mess With Success" :wink: 8)

 

[stinkworm]

Hawg

Lots of us like to tinker and try all the cutting edge stuff-bullets and powders.
Sure APP is not the fastest powder on the market, But if it is working well for you, there's really no need to "Mess With Success" :wink: 8)

+1

 

[Lee 9]

Quote
APP powders like to be VERY Firmly compressed to give best results. And most of us like to keep an extra dessicant/silica gel pack in the powder cans to keep the powder moisture free.
Quote
Take what Lane said seriously if you are going to stay with APP Powders.
I personally found out the Hard way about it drawing moisture. If you keep it closed in with a dehumidifier it would be best. If you can keep it dry it works fairly well. Lee

 

[Okie Hog]

What Lane said.

Shot a lot of APP for several years but did not hunt with it. I began using JSG in 2005. Hunted very successfully with it for a couple of years and then went with Pinnacle which I now use exclusively.

APP, JSG and Pinnacle like a tight fitting sabot that is seated really hard on the powder. I put a golf ball on the end of the ramrod really lean on it. Using the tight fitting red or the black sabot; my Encore makes .75-1.25" three shot groups with 2F Pinnacle and the 250 grain SST/Shockwave bullet. With the Hornady Easy Loads the groups grow to 2.5-3" With the Super Glide sabots the groups are over 6."

I have a can of JSG that has been open for at least three years. Tried some of it on a target a few weeks ago: My first group had three Shockwaves touching at 100 yards so I quit and put the gun in its case.

 

[rat trapper]

As others have posted American Pioneer powder is ok, just not the best of what you can buy today. I have couple cans of it given to me that I am trying to burn up. It is sure slower than T7 or Goex. Power belt bullets are pushed by a lot of stores and an easy to load bullet. However they normally do not perform as well as other bullets.

 

[UtahRob]

here is a 30 shot group at 50 yards with Pyrodex .452- 300 grain XTP and using Remington KLean bore primers . i also had great luck using them with Bh209 . Never had a miss fire with kleanbore primers EVER , no matter what powder is used them with . Used them in a Tradition pursuit pro . CVA Optima . Encore and a Omega .