Pietta 1858 Bison .44 cal 12" bbl Brass Frame or the Traditions 1858 Bison Revolver .44 cal FR185812

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

trapperCVA

Active Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
44
Reaction score
17
Hello Fellas I am wondering which of these 2 cap & ball revolvers would be the best to buy & I plan to shoot it a good bit I would be grateful in some help from you that have been doing this for years I am a total greenhorn BUT I know how to load a cap & ball & I have already chosen the powder I am gonna shoot I have looked & researched both pistols & I want ya'lls thoughts on the choice I will be making
Thank Ya Fellas
Tim
 
Ok good I didn't know that thanks a bunch friend Pietta makes a good revolver do you shoot a Pietta
 
I am wondering if there is a way to not have to use the Bore Butter to seal up the chambers is there a patch or wad I can use instead . I emailed Pietta & theu stated that the max load is 30 grains tch or wad that will work I will use the Bore Butter to seal the chambers if I have to & I will be shooting the Pyrodex 44-45 Caliber 30 Grain Pistol Pellets
 
I have an 1858 Pietta. I usually load as follows; 30 grains of either 3f BP, 30 grains of 3f 777 or 30 grains of Pyrodex P...then I place a lubed .44/.45 lubed felt wad on top of the powder....followed by a .454 Ball rammed home. The .454 ball cuts a nice lead ring on the ball and the lubed wad under the ball work’s doubly well to seal the powder under the ball. I cap with Remington #10 caps. Pretty accurate and reliable. The Pietta frame is set up to only load round balls. If you want to shoot conical bullets, you’ll need to modify the frame like I did or load the cylinder off the gun. If you wanted to put bore butter on top of the ball after loading, you can eliminate the lubed wad. I’ve just always used a wad with excellent results.

You could start with 20-25 grains of either powder to make sure the ball will seat fully with a wad under it. I’m pretty sure I was able to get 30 grains under the wad without issue, but it’s been awhile since I’ve shot mine.
 
Hey thank you this information has helped my a lot I will need more help can you let me know what type of those wads so I don't have to use that messy Bore Butter & I would be very grateful if you could make up a list of the Accessories I will need except for caps & powder I have already chosen them I really thank you for all of this valuable information I am a total green horn in the Cap & Ball Revolvers Thank ya so much friend
 
I am going to make my own rounds ball for my Pietta I have already made a list of what I need to start the casting process
 
Brass frames are fine for the 36 calibers...but in the 44cal, a 30gr charge of Pyrodex will wear out the brass frames in a short time.
 
30gr in a brass frame? my revolvers are all steel but if my 75 year old memory is correct that would be a no-no. Lube over the ball can help pervent chain fires but it also helps keep the cylinder rolling.
 
Ok, then pipe up and give him some loads...my 1858 is steel framed not brass. If it’s a brass frame, scale the charge back. A brass frame Remington is quite a bit stronger than a brass frame open top colt.
 
How does Pietta compare to Uberti? Anyone know what the differences are?
Not sure whether to buy the Pietta 1858 or the Uberti.
 
In the brass frame "1858 Remington" I had back around 1988, I used 25 grains Pyrodex RS under a .454 ball.
Uncooked Cream of Wheat or Malt-O-Meal over the ball.
25 grains was the minimum load I could use, and still get the ball fully seated on the powder.
The cereal seemed to scrape fouling from previous shots out, without damaging the barrel.
(makes sense, since the barrel is a lot harder than the uncooked cereal)
I never shot other than blanks or round ball with that revolver.
In my steel framed revolvers, I used 30 grains, except in one "1858 Remington". The chambers on it were a little deeper. It needed 35 grains for the ball to seat against the powder. I still used the uncooked cereal over the balls.
Cream of Wheat and Malt-O-Meal are inflammable, and don't melt making a big mess on the first (or any other) shot.
 
Last edited:
Are you set on getting the Bison Model? Like the guys have said, it has a brass frame and a 12” barrel. The brass frame is a bit weaker than a steel frame and the 12” barrel will limit your holster options. I have found that my plain old 1858 steel framed model with the 8 inch barrel is plenty accurate and it can handle a more stout load. I’ve just used the regular lubed felt wads offered by Cabelas. I understand that Jonathan offers lubed felt wads on this site that are lubed with his lube and are a great price. I would not hesitate to use them, probably better than the cabelas brand because of his lube.
 
To weigh in, the brass frame will stretch over time with enough shots through it. You are better off with a steel frame with brass backstrap & trigger guard. Also, you don't need to use bore butter; Crisco works just fine over the ball and is a durn sight cheaper! Make sure the balls are large enough to scrape a ring off when you seat them in the cylinder. The grease over the ball is supposed to keep from having the flame from the shot getting into the next charge over, which can be disconcerting to say the least. Using a wad or Cream of Wheat between the powder and the ball does the same thing.

Have fun & keep us informed on how you make out!
~WH~
 
Good information Winter Hawk, have done the same since reading it in a 1970's Dixie catalog. :thumbs up:



buck conner.jpg
 
The Steel Framed Models can be converted to a centerfire cylinder can't they & I don't want that The Pietta 1858 12" is the model I am getting buy now I am very concerned that I will wear it out shooting it I am gonna see if I can find a Steel Frame Pietta 1858 Bison/Buffalo 12" I can use a shoulder holster
 
Fellas
I didn't want to bring this up but I got into some trouble almost 10 years ago & it wound up a felony I haven't done nothing since & it wasn't a violent crime I just got caught up in a mess I do hope that you fellas won't kick me out of the forum so I can only have a black powder & it can't be converted to a center fire rimfire I am ashamed but I have paid fore what I did & I only blame ME IF the Pietta 1858 and feel free to ask what I did & I will be glad to let you know I made a very stupid choice & it still haunts me & if ya'll do decide to have me removed from this forum I will understand
Tim
 
I wasn’t aware of the bison’s not being able to be converted. But if that is the case, stick with what you’re allowed by law. Even if you only shot 20 grains of powder to keep the wear on the brass frame down, it will be plenty fun to shoot. Also the max load is not always the most accurate load. You may find that it shoots better with less powder.
There’s a ton of fun videos on YouTube to watch specific to that revolver.
 
The Steel Framed Models can be converted to a centerfire cylinder can't they & I don't want that The Pietta 1858 12" is the model I am getting buy now I am very concerned that I will wear it out shooting it I am gonna see if I can find a Steel Frame Pietta 1858 Bison/Buffalo 12" I can use a shoulder holster
Just because conversion cylinders are available does not mean you must obtain one.

Any brass frame will "Shoot of time" eventually. Sooner, rather than later, if you use loads that lean to the "heavy" side. (over 20-25 grains. Be aware that you may need to use a "heavier" charge to seat the ball fully on the powder. As with a rifle, you do not want a gap/air space between the powder and ball.
One of my revolvers had a "Short Stroke", I'd guess, when pressing the ball into the chamber using the "recommended" powder charge. I had to up it by 5 grains to get the ball seated on the powder. (Over powder wads for revolver had not been invented yet when I had that one.)
Truth to tell, I never thought of putting 5 grains (compressed volume) or so Cream of Wheat between the powder and ball. I always put it on top of the ball to seal the chambers. Adding 5 grains of powder and putting the Cream of Wheat on top was easier/less hassle and possibly a little faster.
Only time I put the Cream of Wheat directly on top of the powder was if I was shooting blanks at a CW reenactment.
(25 grains FFFg or P grade Pyrodex, Cream of Wheat compressed flush with the chamber mouth. was my blanks load.)

BYW: If you do decide to get a conversion cylinder, you do not have to modify or replace the hammer to fire the black powder loaded "Cowboy Action" cartridges. The cylinder "end cap" has six firingpins that are hit by the standard C&B hammer.
Cartridge or not, you still don't want smokeless powder anywhere near your revolver.

Why are you set on a 12 inch barrel, if you don't mind my asking?
Bat Masterson never had one, no matter what dime novels, urban legend, and Hollywood claim.
Because of the barrel and chamber gap, a longer barrel will not add to the velocity.
A 12 inch barrel will just make carrying more difficult and the revolver clumsy, since the balance will be off..
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top