300 gr XTP question???

[whitesmoke]

Was wondering how the 45cal. 300gr XTP expands on whitetails when it impacts at lower velocities, say around 1200fps or so? I can get some at a good price with some MMP 'short' sabots (for fifty cal) will be using them in a Ruger 77/50. I figure I should get about 1500fps or so at the muzzle and shots at a deer will come at 75yds or less. If you don't think this would be a good load what do you recommend for a bullet that will strike at lower velocities? BTW, Powerbelts of any weight don't shoot well in this particular rifle.

Thanks,

Whitesmoke

 

[frontier gander]

If powderbelts dont shoot good. try an all lead sabot.

i dont think the 300gr xtp will expand very well with the 1200fps range

 

[hakx]

XTP's

The regular XTP Hollowpoints will fit the bill and will expand favorably at velocities even less than 1200 fps. The XTP Mag are meant for the higher velocity impacts. I whacked a mule doe a 174 yards with a reg 300 gr XTP ahead of 90 gr T7 FFG. According to a few online ballistic calculators, they bullet was only traveling somewhere between 1182 to 1133 FPS but still having 900+ ft/lbs of energy. Your golden.

 

[AJ]

My beef with XTP bullets was the blood trail, it was nil. I have taken quite a few deer with ML guns and the XTP gave the worst blood trails. The accuracy was great, loading was fine, and it killed deer just fine, but finding them was a heck of a time. I switched to Precision Rifle bullets and the blood trails were much easier to see.

Personally, I will not use the XTP for deer, unless its in the Savage where the speed is cranked up a bit more.

 

[whitesmoke]

I've usually relied on PR's all lead 360gr. KeithNose HP (with great success) but I ran out; came across the XTPs so I thought I would give 'em a try but was worried that my velocity might be a bit low with this jacketed bullet (I've heard the XTPs do real well for the smokeless guys who push 'em much faster). Still not sure though

Whitesmoke

 

[cayuga]

I've never shot a deer with the XTP so take this OPINION how you want. But the XTP was made for handguns. Handguns do not normally produce extreme velocities. I would THINK that the XTP should hit, expand well and cause a lot of internal damage. That will cause the death. Granted you might not get an exit hole. And that might make tracking harder, but as far as their killing power, I have little doubt in them.

I intend to hunt with the 300 grain .44 caliber on 80 grains of powder. I have no idea what the velocity is of that load.

My book says 100 grains of powder and a 300 grain has a muzzle velocity of 1582 fps. With 80 grains it says, 1434 fps. Again, I think that would be plenty of juice to make them expand.

As for tracking, I never had a lot of problem tracking deer as it is normally snow on the ground when I hunt.

 

[AJ]

I looked back through my logs and see that from 1999-2000 I have taken 5 whitetail deer with the 240 gr XTP pushed by 150 gr of Pyrodex pellets ignited by CCI Musket Caps from a TC Black Diamond. Distances were from 15 yards to 100 yards. All of the deer shot were behind the shoulder lung shots.

 

[big6x6]

I've never shot a deer with the XTP so take this OPINION how you want. But the XTP was made for handguns. Handguns do not normally produce extreme velocities. I would THINK that the XTP should hit, expand well and cause a lot of internal damage. That will cause the death. Granted you might not get an exit hole. And that might make tracking harder, but as far as their killing power, I have little doubt in them.

And you are EXACTLY correct! Straight out of my Hornady Reloading Manual 7th edition says that the "muzzle velocity range" for both a 250gr .452 #45200 XTP AND a 300gr .452 #45230 XTP starts as low as 800fps for both bullets.

If it were me though I go with the 250gr .452 XTP. It'll give you a little higher velocity and a little less recoil but either bullet will do a number on a whitetail easily to 100yds...

 

[frontier gander]

i shot a good deal of xtps today and my brother believe it or not simply walked up the trail and picked up a 300gr mag xtp right up off the ground :lol: the only damage was the copper was scratched up badly.

 

[younghunter_86]

I have a lot of faith in the regular XTP, no experience with the mag version. At T7/BH209 velocites I think the XTP will do just fine. I've never had on "fail" yet in either the 200 gr or 250 grain version. Last year all 200 gr penetrated except a larger spike buck which was shot at an angle and lodged in rear quarter. The 250 is about the same but seems to have much more internal damage. I haven't used a 300 but may experiment this year(I've been buying bullet/sabot components and changing what I want to try about twice a day).

Back to the 300 grain XTP. Here is probably the worst case scenario. The bullet penetrates all the way through without expanding much. You now have a .45 in. hole through the vitals. Chance of survival is nill, and there should be a great bloodtrail. Usually blood trails have been very good for me.

 

[AJ]

And you are EXACTLY correct! Straight out of my Hornady Reloading Manual 7th edition says that the "muzzle velocity range" for both a 250gr .452 #45200 XTP AND a 300gr .452 #45230 XTP starts as low as 800fps for both bullets.

One thing to keep in mind is bullet performance from a handgun will be slightly different than a muzzleloader due to twist rates. A typical .45 LC has a 1:16" twist where a ML with a 1:28" twist will not spin the bullet as fast putting different gyroscopic effects into the equasion. A bullet that is rotating faster will open differently compared to a bullet rotating slower.

 

[UtahRob]

My son and i and a friend , have had great luck using the XTP in 300 grain on Elk( mag ) and deer ( non mag ) . The exit holes where twice the size and the entrance . Not much of a blood trail , no trail at all , they dropped in there tracks !!

 

[big6x6]

And you are EXACTLY correct! Straight out of my Hornady Reloading Manual 7th edition says that the "muzzle velocity range" for both a 250gr .452 #45200 XTP AND a 300gr .452 #45230 XTP starts as low as 800fps for both bullets.

One thing to keep in mind is bullet performance from a handgun will be slightly different than a muzzleloader due to twist rates. A typical .45 LC has a 1:16" twist where a ML with a 1:28" twist will not spin the bullet as fast putting different gyroscopic effects into the equasion. A bullet that is rotating faster will open differently compared to a bullet rotating slower.

That true BUT... You think that will matter much in this case? He would be no where NEAR the fringe of that velocity range...with a muzzle velocity of only 1600fps with 100gr of whatever 100yds will still be close to 1300fps....

 

[Reese]

I have had really good success using 85 gr FFFg T7, CCI #11 cap, 250 gr .452 XTP, and Harvester black sabot in my Ruger 77/50. I have shot about six deer from 10 yards to almost 100 yards with it using this combination and none of them needed a second shot and I have had good blood trails. Most if not all of the shots were double lung. The Ruger only has about 21" of working barrel so adding more powder just seemed to leave behind more unburnt powder..

The last two seasons I have been using the 250 gr SST. I enjoy the thought of flatter/longer shots but I have not had the opportunities. I have shot seven deer with the 250 gr SST and I like the results of the 250 gr XTP just a little better. Once I am done with my supply of 250 gr SST, I will probably go back to the XTP. It's cheaper buying the XTP in bulk (100) than buy the SST's in 30 packs and replace the sabot anyway.

 

[sabotloader]

whitesmoke

I really do not want to interject useless information in here - but I think you could end all of your speculation about the XTP - by shooting the .452/300 grain Speer Gold Dot... It is a bonded bullet and it a BC of .233. It is good from 10 yards to 200 yards - it will expand through tissue and it will expand through bone... I am shooting it at 1860fps and have tortued the heck out it... it is a poorman's Nosler...

Here some additional in formation...

This is a factory picture of how it is suppose to expand.... in real life it really does not do that well...

These are real life from tortue testing

Here are the XTP's in the same test....

Factory information

just suggesting

 

[Lee 9]

whitesmoke

I really do not want to interject useless information in here - but I think you could end all of your speculation about the XTP - by shooting the .452/300 grain Speer Gold Dot... It is a bonded bullet and it a BC of .233. It is good from 10 yards to 200 yards - it will expand through tissue and it will expand through bone... I am shooting it at 1860fps and have tortued the heck out it... it is a poorman's Nosler...

Here some additional in formation...

This is a factory picture of how it is suppose to expand.... in real life it really does not do that well...

These are real life from tortue testing

Here are the XTP's in the same test....

Factory information

just suggesting

+! Lee

 

[whitesmoke]

Thanks to all for the good info. Sabotloader, what sabot are you using with that Speer, have you taken any deer with that bullet yet?

Whitesmoke

 

[sabotloader]

whitesmoke

Mr smoke, depending on what ML I use the sabot varies somewhat... In the White, I use a HPH-12, and in everything else I use the HPH-24, although the regular Harvester or the short black will work very well also.

I think you indicated you were shooting a 77/50 - I have one of the original Rem 700ml's (24" variety) which is somewhat simular to the 77/50, in fact I almost bought one, and I shoot the GD from it with 100 grains of T7-2f but I am using a Cabelas 209 ignition system. If I were to shoot it with the #11 nipple - I would use a #11 mag cap and T7-3f. That will give a really decent velocity and the energy will do the job.

I have not harvested with this bullet yet - I am still using Noslers - but when I run out it is the top bullet on the list. Several people have used it very succesfull. Check this thread out...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1791957

Here is a ballistic chart - might give you some general information

When you look at the chart you'll see that i use a 6" point blank range to sight the rifle in... so @ 100 yards the POI is up 2.5+" and near dead zero @ 140 yards...

Hope the information helps...

 

[Davexx1]

I have used the Hornady 50 cal 240 grain XTP sabots in my old TC Renegade rifle (with scope) with 100 grains of FF Goex real black power ever since they were introduced. Accuracy at 100 yards was as good as anything else and they hammer the deer.

I don't remember the muzz velocity of this load out of this rifle but think at 90-100 yards it is like putting a 44 magnum handgun to the side of a deer and pulling the trigger. Very effective.

Shots ranged out to 130 yards, but usually around 90 yards. Many bucks taken with this load over many years, but exit holes with good blood trails have been rare. Most often the bullet is found in tact, fully mushroomed, just under the skin on the far side of the animal. It appears that every once of energy is unloaded into the animal.

With the very rare close range broadside shot, the few exit wounds have been very dramatic.

I have tried the .452 XTP 250 grain bullet with MMP short black sabot in my new Savage ML-II with SR-4759 and they don't shoot particularly well. I need to try some other combinations.

Dave1

 

[rjvb]

I have used the 300gr. xtp in an original knight orange disc with 150 gr. pyro pelets. for the last ten years. I have shot many 30+ deer from 10 to 190 yards. Very little blood trail for the first 20 to 30 yards then flood gates usually open. Have only recovered two bullets and they were quarteing towards and away at 150 yard plus. They were just under the hide, and looked like a hornady add for expansion. All other shots were pass throughts and like I said very little blood for the first 20-30 yards. All deer were recovered in less than 100 yards.