How much extra range by going to 150g?

[Recoil Rob]

It's often been said that in the NE you never need to shoot more than 100yds. but on opening day of the regular season this year I had to pass up a large bodied buck & doe because they were over 200 yds. away, across a field, and I was in shotgun & slug territory.

This lead me to think about my ML's, an Austin & Halleck 420 and a Ruger 77/50.

In the A&H (26" barrel) I've been shooting Barnes 300g. Expanders w/sabots w/2 Clean Shot or Pyrodex pellets, 100gr. total. I have it 1" high at 50yds. figured I'd be good out to 100yds. But passing on that buck gets me wondering what kind of range I can wring out of it with 3 pellets and where it should hit @100yds to get maximum point blank.

I haven't shot the Ruger yet, it has a 21" barrel, less time for powder to burn but a much lighter gun. Any ideas how this would perform with 3 pellets? Is the barrel too short to burn the charge efficiently?

My thoughts are to maybe set the Ruger up with 2 pellets for still hunting and take advantage of the A&H's longer barrel and use 3 pellets. Also has some more weight to soak up the recoil but I'm not particularly recoil sensitive after years of 12ga slug hunting.

Appreciate your thoughts on where my zero should be on both guns.


thanks,

Rob

 

[frontier gander]

no extra range, just poor accuracy

 

[SteveB]

I have it 1" high at 50yds. figured I'd be good out to 100yds.

You should never "figure" anything when it comes to range.
Personally I would never shoot at an animal at any distance I had not shot
my load at to know exactly where it hits and if it is still accurate. Same when you make any change in your load.

I would never consider any shot over 100 yds with any load without a lot of range time at and beyond the max distance you would shoot in the field. Any no longer shots in the field without a rangefinder.

 

[spitfire100]

When I shot 150grs my accurancy was not good. I backed off down to 100 and it was dead on at 100 1" groups.

 

[shooter44n45]

I would shoot somethign around 100 grains to retain accuracy and learn your loads ballistics and compensate accordingly. Sniper rifles don't shoot like laser beams out to 800 yards or more yet they know how to figure their dope and make the shots. Same should go for hunting scenarios.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I think you should try it. Its fun to experiment with load combos. I don't know if the expander would be a good bullet choice though. I like Barnes bullets, but I would try the semi-spitzer or the tipped TMZ. The Ruger, I would zero it at 100 yards. The A&H, any where from 100 to 150 yards depending on what you like.

 

[jascoesens]

R Rob,

Only one way to find out, and that is range work.
If I were to experiment along this line of thought I would 1st check for adequate accuracy at 150 yards. Zero at 150 yds THEN check POI at about 90 yds (~midrange when using a scope) and 200 yds.
Personally I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards without a solid rest.
What is your maximum distance regarding your field competency?????
Good luck, good control, be safe, and have fun.

 

[Reese]

I haven't shot the Ruger yet, it has a 21" barrel, less time for powder to burn but a much lighter gun. Any ideas how this would perform with 3 pellets? Is the barrel too short to burn the charge efficiently?

I have a Ruger 77/50 and I believe the barrel is too short for three pellets. Even two pellets would be a challenge unless you are using the Canadian 209 conversion breech plug. I have tested out to 200 yards using around 85 grs of fffg T7 and 250 gr SST. There is a lot of drop out to 200 yards. It has a short working barrel and I did not gain much by going to a larger powder charge. I have confidence in it out to about 150 yards.

 

[fliowa]

I have a knight mk 85 with a 24 inch barrel set up as a 200 yard gun. It required some serious range time. I have a 3x9x40 scope with quality rings and bases. I use 100 grains 777 ffg loose and 250 grain shockwaves. I have it zeroed at 150 yards. Its a tick over 3 inches high at 100 yards and 5 inches low at 175. At 200 yards it's 10 to 12 inches low. I have taken several deer in the 140 to 160 range with the longest at 186. Most of these long shots are taken on deer feeding in open fields where a rangefinder is a must. I am usually in a ground blind with a chair and have gun on shooting sticks. Weather conditions play a big part as well. Little or no wind is a big plus when shooting out to 200. Under ideal weather conditions I consider 200 to be my max distance with the above set up.

 

[vabowhntr]

As I always like to mention, the wind is as much, or more, of a factor than drop at that range with a mz. If you can't read the wind, don't try the shot even in a light breeze. It does not take much to send the bullet off by 5-10 inches at 200 yards. Shooting at 200 yards with a muzzleloader takes a lot of practice at that range.

 

[sabotloader]

Recoil Rob

Another factor that has not been mentioned is energy... 150 grain bullet shot @ even 2500/2700 fps second is not going to have a lot of energy left at those extreme ML ranges. And as mentioned the more it slows down the greater the wind currents are going to effect it, and unforunately when shooting those type ranges the bullet may pass through several differnt wind currents on its way to the target.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

A 150 grain bullet that slows down to 2000 fps upon impact will have 1,333 fpe. A 250 grain bullet at 1500 fps will have 1,249 fpe. A 300 gr bullet at 1250 fps will have 1,041 fpe. I've been trying to find out how much a bullet will slow at 200 yards, but haven't found anything yet. I'm sure there are many variables involved but a rough idea would be helpful. It seems to me that all of the above numbers are enough to shoot a whitetail. I think I remember reading where you should have at least 1000 fpe to humanely harvest a deer. As far as wind drift, a 10 mph direct cross wind will move a 250 gr bullet approx. 10-12 inches at 200 yards.

 

[sabotloader]

BuckDoeHunter

Here is a ballistic ran to 200 yards with a 40/150 grain Lehigh.. with a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps.

Followed by a 40/200

and a .452/250 grain SST/Sw

 

[SteveB]

I shot a doe this morning at 175 yds thru both front legs just below scapula - bullet not recovered.
100gr BH209 w/nosler 260gr partition - ballistic scope w/2nd pt dead on at 175. Never chrono'd, but the penertration hints at sufficient energy.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Thank you for the charts. That helps.

 

[Underclocked]

Mike, post a chart for a 497 grain conical doing 1200 fps at the muzzle. Figure about .2 for the BC just to be conservative.

 

[sabotloader]

UC

Here you go...

Here is a 300 grain Gold dot also...

 

[Underclocked]

thankyee

 

[SteveB]

SL - great info!

Thank you sir.

 

[Recoil Rob]

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the info and opinions, they are appreciated. As I said, I'm fairly new to ML's, with slugs and rifle cartridges trajectories are available and not having a chronograph leads to some guesswork. I was not aware of what these guns and loads are capable of, I now have a much better idea.

200yds is within my field competence and since that seems to be a working limit for the guns I am OK there.

My Ruger does have a shotgun primer kit installed but I am going to make that a 100 yd gun for carrying through the woods. The A&H will be wrung out in the off season to get some better range out of it and be used as was suggested, from a rest.

I admire everyone's ethics about not being sure of where my bullet would go and I want to assure you I am in complete agreement. I have 7 days left here in NY and no shots will be taken if they are not within the guns capability or mine.

For future reference what are some of the better bullets I should test for longer range from the A&H .50cal.?

Also, may I ask a question about the Barnes ballistics program, will it work in reverse? If you plug in all the info except muzzle speed but enter in where an impact is at a certain distance, will it figure out the speed and impact at the other distances? Just curious.

Again, thanks to all.