Why not real Black instead of pyrodex or 777?

[Johnny Deer Man]

I love my savage for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that I can use smokeless powder and don't have to deal with all the cleaning. But, for my other ML's I always used BP subs. Then I got a flintlock and started shooting Swiss FF.

Anyway, it got me thinking. Why does anyone use pyro or 777 and not real black? I can understand using a sub if its BH209 or APP or something else that doesn't require constant cleaning. But, if you have to clean anyway why not use real black?

Johnny

 

[Busta]

I love my savage for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that I can use smokeless powder and don't have to deal with all the cleaning. But, for my other ML's I always used BP subs. Then I got a flintlock and started shooting Swiss FF.

Anyway, it got me thinking. Why does anyone use pyro or 777 and not real black? I can understand using a sub if its BH209 or APP or something else that doesn't require constant cleaning. But, if you have to clean anyway why not use real black?

Johnny

Johnny,

Availability would be one reason. There are places where you could not buy holy black within a 100 mile radius, or more. You can buy Pyrodex and 777 at every Mom & Pop and Big Box. Most places do not want to deal with the extra hassle of legally storing Black Powder.

People are creatures of convenience, if they can't get it at their local Wal-Mart or Gun Store, they probably won't use it. It can be ordered and shipped to your door, but you need to buy by the case to really make it worth the added Haz-Mat and Shipping. The majority of guys hunting today don't even shoot a pound of powder a year, some won't even shoot a pound in 5 years. Once they get their rifle sighted in, they may only shoot one group a year to confirm their zero.

 

[Nimrodder]

Johnny, I use Swiss 3F in all my inlines. I'm lucky enough to live close to the NMLRA and make a trip every June to pick up more. If I couldn't do that I would be shooting T7.

 

[GM54-120]

Ive been wanting to try some Swiss in the LK93 54cal. A local LGS has it in stock and they also have another imported powder. Its much more expensive though.

Swiss appears fairly close to T7 is power but im a bit skiddish of using anything but BH209 in a non stainless gun.

I guess ive gotten spoiled on not having to cleanup right after a range session.

 

[Dave James]

I know in my area for a long time there was a city reg that goverened how much you could store in your home,,

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

I know what you mean about everyone having 777 and pyrodex.

I purchased a few pounds of 2f and a pound of 4f when I bought my flintlock. The 4f it for priming so that pound will last a lifetime.

I just love the swiss. I dont think the clean up is any different the 777 or pryo. It is $20 or $25 for the hazmat fee from Grafs but to me its worth it. Why be cheap on powder. If you buy three or four pounds its no big deal.

I plan on using it in my ML shotgun and any other ML I shoot. (Except the smokeless one of course!)

I just love muzzleloaders!!!!

 

[sabotloader]

FrontStuffer1

Somehow, between the end of November and yesterday - I have managed to shoot 6 lbs of T7-2f, 2 lbs of T7-3f, 2 1/2 jugs of BH-209. I can not believe how much powder I have shot and I only shoot the 'black gold' BH for experimentation - could not afford to shoot it full time.

For me it is a price thing.... Swiss here is $25 and very difficult to find, GOEX is lot less expensive and much easier to find @ one of the area clubs, the Pryro's run about $16/$17 dollars here, T7 $20, and BH $30 for ten ounces.

I shoot T7 because, for me, it is far less corrosive than any of the BP's or Pyro's and far less expensive than BH...

 

[Batchief909]

Swiss is the pick for me.... 8)

 

[cayuga]

Swiss is a great powder no doubt. But because of cost, and the amount I shoot, I use Graf's and Sons black powder and shoot that most of the time. Granted I love to experiment with other powder in my rifles and shoot them also, but the main powder still is black powder for me.

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

I thought 777 was pretty corrosive. Just very easy to clean.

Graf's is pretty reasonable in price. If you buy a lot the shipping and hazmat don't even matter.

It would be nice if more dealers carried real ML related stuff instead of the crap.


Johnny

 

[Lee 9]

For some of us the price and availability make a big difference.
Around here black is very hard to get pyrodex is some times cheap and easy to get picked up 10 pounds for 6$ each a while back the only black I can normally get is GEOX which I don't like as well as Swift and 777 and Blackhorn both sell for around 26$ so I use Blackhorn as I would not wish crud rings on my enemy if I had one.
So I pay 25 for black and shot it only in the rock lock and use Pyrodex in the traditionals and Blackhorn in the inlines simply because thats what is practical here.
You will find that different parts of the country have different availability and prices, at least partly controlled by the demand. Our club has generated enough demand to make it practical for a local dealer to by in quantity and supply us directly with Blackhorn which helps big time.

 

[Okie Hog]

Used blackpowder exclusively many years ago because that was all there was. Upon my return to muzzleloading in the late 90s, i decided to go with Pyrodex after trying a few brands of black powder. Pyrodex was more consistent than any brand of black powder that i tried. In 2006 i started using some JSG. Then it was mostly Goex Pinnacle until it became unavailable late last year.

I have a big bunch of Pyrodex that was bought on sale for $5-$9 a can. It's Pyrodex for me.

 

[frontier gander]

goex/american pioneer in the flint

American pioneer-jsg in my sidelock

BH209-american in the inlines.

 

[greatbasin]

I used Wano brand real BP in RSA and it worked out just fine.

 

[Swampman]

I find that my very best accuracy comes from 3F Goex Black Powder.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I switched to Swiss because of its accuracy and consistency.It is however, expensive( just got a pound for $ 28 at Dixon's OUCH). A not often mentioned advantage to black is that properly stored its shelf life is practicaly indefinate.It is a mechanical blend and contains no solvents etc to evaporate and degrade over time.Keep it cool and dry and a century from now it'll still be fine. Dont know too many powders that can say the same.Besides, no crud ring ( T7) less corrosive than Pyro and nowhere near as finicky as BH209.What's not to love?

 

[Batchief909]

I switched to Swiss because of its accuracy and consistency.It is however, expensive( just got a pound for $ 28 at Dixon's OUCH). A not often mentioned advantage to black is that properly stored its shelf life is practicaly indefinate.It is a mechanical blend and contains no solvents etc to evaporate and degrade over time.Keep it cool and dry and a century from now it'll still be fine. Dont know too many powders that can say the same.Besides, no crud ring ( T7) less corrosive than Pyro and nowhere near as finicky as BH209.What's not to love?

Amen... 8)

 

[Semisane]

GOEX is my "go to" powder and what I use most of the time. But I do pick up any T7 and Pyrodex I can at WalMart's end of season sale just to have some of that to play around with.

All three require a conscientious cleaning regimen and there's not a real big difference in clean-up. I think it's easier to find a good shooting load with real black powder than the subs.

I get GOEX by the case and usually buy one case a year. Bought my last 25-can case in September for $11.09 per pound (and shot up a little over a pound of it last weekend).

 

[santoslhalper]

I agree that availability and price are big issues. But another issue is that while Pyrodex is as corrosive as blackpowder, T7 is not nearly as corrosive.

I can shoot T7 and not clean the gun til the next day or even 2 days later and not worry about it - I've never had corrosion issues. I would never, ever try that with blackpowder.

 

[Semisane]

I would never, ever try that with blackpowder.

Even with GOEX and Pyrodex, if you swab the bore once with a very wet 91% alcohol patch and then give it a shot of WD-40, you're safe for a day or two.