The Subs
- Thread starter Swampman
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I shoot sub powders all the time in traditional rifles. And most the time they work really well. I also shoot black powder but some people have a distribution problem when it comes to black powder. So they shoot what they can get.
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cayuga
Excellent response... There are no vendors in my area that can store real BP because of it's classification.
Excellent response... There are no vendors in my area that can store real BP because of it's classification.
sabotloader said:
I need an education on this. Is this because of state laws? I have heard this mentioned before but have not had any problems getting Goex. That is what my local gun shop keeps in stock. In my state there are no restrictions beyond those imposed by BATF. The biggest problem for vendors is the required record keeping and storage. The guy that runs the shops says that what they make on selling the powder is not worth the hassle they have to go through. They keep it in stock because they have a good client base that wants it. Last time I talked to them about it they were selling around 200 lbs per year. As long as there is not more than 50 pounds in the shop at a time and it is stored in a powder magazine there is no problem. Not too long ago, Goex was campaigning to have their sporting blackpowders reclassified to make it the same as other sporting powders, including subs. What amazes me is that for the price of a case and the hazmat delivery charge, you can have it delivered to your door but vendors don?t want to keep it in their shop.
The same shop I deal with, also carries a good selection of the subs. Last time I was there they had Pyrodex, T7, American, Blackhorn and I think Pinnacle. A good variety. The only place that I will not shoot a sub is in a flintlock. I?m just too lazy to duplex loads. I do prefer blackpowder for rifle and pistol target shoots.
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I can tell you about black powder sales in Wisconsin. My best friend owned a gun shop (fancy that). He carried all kinds of powders for reloading including black powder and Pyrodex RS (at the time, that was about it), you needed.
The State of Wisconsin, and Federal Government passed safety standards regarding the shipping and storing of powder by stores like his. His insurance company told him that in order to sell black powder he would be required to build a vault in his store. They even supplied him with the specifications of the vault, and it was going to have to be inspected by them when completed. Further, if he wanted to display his product on shelves, he had to return it to the safe each night. Now the sub powders do not fall under these requirements.
He priced the cost of the vault, figured the profit on his sales of black powder, and when the date of you had to be at these standards came, sold me a bunch at cost, and moved the rest of the powder to his house. Where there were no restrictions on its storage, but he could not sell it.
That is why it is almost impossible to purchase black powder in Wisconsin from the Mom and Pop stores. Some stores do have it. They don't tell anyone, but if you mention you need a pound and they know you, it suddenly appears you might say. Even those are about all dried up. That's why I buy mine by the case.
The State of Wisconsin, and Federal Government passed safety standards regarding the shipping and storing of powder by stores like his. His insurance company told him that in order to sell black powder he would be required to build a vault in his store. They even supplied him with the specifications of the vault, and it was going to have to be inspected by them when completed. Further, if he wanted to display his product on shelves, he had to return it to the safe each night. Now the sub powders do not fall under these requirements.
He priced the cost of the vault, figured the profit on his sales of black powder, and when the date of you had to be at these standards came, sold me a bunch at cost, and moved the rest of the powder to his house. Where there were no restrictions on its storage, but he could not sell it.
That is why it is almost impossible to purchase black powder in Wisconsin from the Mom and Pop stores. Some stores do have it. They don't tell anyone, but if you mention you need a pound and they know you, it suddenly appears you might say. Even those are about all dried up. That's why I buy mine by the case.
