250gr barnes TMZ vs 250 shockwaves, from a savage

[cummins cowboy]

which is gonna be the more accurate bullet?? also the big question is how fast can a savage reasonably push these 2 bullets?? how do you know if you are shooting a max load with a smokeless ML?? you don't have pressure signs like a centerfire rifle??

 

[DW]

At a 100yds it is a push as far as accuracy between the two, at 200yds or longer, the SW is easily more accurate for me.

Under a 100yds it might be best to take rib shots with the SW, most people seem to complain about the SW blowing up like a grenade on close shots even with the book powders, the TMZ will plow through at any angle at any speed your shoulder can take.

With 4759 or N110 you are probably looking at 2450fps at the most before the sabot will blow, that doesn't mean your gun is going to shoot those powders at that speed accurately, the two I have worked with like to be shot at approximately 2300fps with a 250gr SST. With a powder like H4198 you should be able to find something accurate at 2500fps+ but recoil becomes a factor.

This is a good guideline for loads but nothing is set in stone. powders vary from lot to lot and bullet/sabot fit has relevance to how fast X grains of powder pushes X weight of bullet at X temperature.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi ... 1132458840

 

[big6x6]

I've never shot anything close to where I would be going over max so I don't know... It IS very easy to know when you are shooting with too hot a barrel though....a strange boom when you pull the trigger and not much recoil...and if you can find the sabot it will be just a mass of plastic...

Over and over again the most accurate bullets to 200yds are the Hornady 250gr SST and the Parker 275gr Ballistic Extreme

 

[cummins cowboy]

so the sabot is the limiting factor, is there ever any problems shooting a load a varying temps?? is 2500 fps pretty much the max speed I can go with any combo??

 

[DW]

so the sabot is the limiting factor, is there ever any problems shooting a load a varying temps?? is 2500 fps pretty much the max speed I can go with any combo??

Work up loads in weather conditions similar to hunting conditions. Cold weather shooting means less wait between shots and the load should perform in the conditions it was worked up at.

Book loads seem to perform pretty well in a variety of temps, that is what makes them great, but if you want speed then a slower powder is going to be needed. Slower powders with light bullets can lead to problems if the pressure is not high enough resulting in velocity swings with the rise and fall of temps. Here is an experience I had- 78gr 10X timed approx. 2500fps at 45* with a 250TMZ, at 20* it lost 250fps, needless to say it shot like crap in the colder weather, the load was just too inefficient. A heavier bullet helps make slower powders more efficient than 250's IMO, especially if you hunt in colder climates.

I shoot the the 250SST at approx. 2600fps, and was shooting the 250TEZ at approx. 2700fps, a guy on the other board worked up to a load that shoots 2800fps with the 250TMZ, none are beginners loads though. Remember, with speed comes RECOIL, recoil is hard on the shooter not to mention scopes. You can easily take deer with book loads at 2300fps out to 200yds or further, my buddy has taken 3 deer past 200yds with the 250SST and N110 at 2300fps the last two years, they had no idea how fast he was shooting.

 

[cummins cowboy]

so the sabot is the limiting factor, is there ever any problems shooting a load a varying temps?? is 2500 fps pretty much the max speed I can go with any combo??

Work up loads in weather conditions similar to hunting conditions. Cold weather shooting means less wait between shots and the load should perform in the conditions it was worked up at.

Book loads seem to perform pretty well in a variety of temps, that is what makes them great, but if you want speed then a slower powder is going to be needed. Slower powders with light bullets can lead to problems if the pressure is not high enough resulting in velocity swings with the rise and fall of temps. Here is an experience I had- 78gr 10X timed approx. 2500fps at 45* with a 250TMZ, at 20* it lost 250fps, needless to say it shot like crap in the colder weather, the load was just too inefficient. A heavier bullet helps make slower powders more efficient than 250's IMO, especially if you hunt in colder climates.

I shoot the the 250SST at approx. 2600fps, and was shooting the 250TEZ at approx. 2700fps, a guy on the other board worked up to a load that shoots 2800fps with the 250TMZ, none are beginners loads though. Remember, with speed comes RECOIL, recoil is hard on the shooter not to mention scopes. You can easily take deer with book loads at 2300fps out to 200yds or further, my buddy has taken 3 deer past 200yds with the 250SST and N110 at 2300fps the last two years, they had no idea how fast he was shooting.

what are you using to get those kind of speeds?? the problem I have is the last 2 years in a row, I have missed 2 shots on large bucks, the problem is all I had was a 250-270 yard shot, I did have a fairly steady rest, I was shooting a 200 shockwave from my A&H at 2225 fps, what I want is a combo that is a definate upgrade to what I have been using, I think I am already pushing the limits of the sabot/bullet combo with the 200grn shockwave as I think its blowing out the bottoms of the sabot.

 

[minst7877]

200 grain shockwaves have not proven to be a very good match for the 50cal Savage. Very few have had any success with these and those who did found that light loads were the requirement for making them work. The available sabots seem to be the limiting factor in this.

DC

 

[DW]

CC, I use a duplex of N110 and H322, not a beginners load IMO, H4198 gives similar speeds but not as accurately and not as efficiently in my gun.

You could shoot either the 300SST or 300gr Barnes Original in the 2300-2400 fps range and have a very accurate load with a bullet with about as good of a BC as you are going to get out of a ML with N120, Rel 7, or H4198. Several guys sight in 3" high at 100, dead on at 200 and about 18" low at 300 with those 300gr bullets, each gun might be a little different. It will take a lot of practice to shoot accurately at 300yds but it can be done in calm conditions, wind really moves these bullets around. The only problem with 300gr bullets, you know you are shooting something, thats my reason for staying with the 250SST. I feel for ya on the big bucks at distance, two biggest I have seen in the woods were in the 300yd range also, that is my reason for buying the Savage also, 300 is still out of my comfort level unless I was shooting off a bench.

 

[cummins cowboy]

what is the purpose of the duplex load, why not just use straight h322??

 

[minst7877]

what is the purpose of the duplex load, why not just use straight h322??

Duplexing gives a longer pressure curve therefor faster velocity usually with less recoil and less overall charge weight.

 

[DW]

Look at that link I posted, would take something like 90gr of H322 to shoot efficiently and I doubt you could burn that much powder in the short Savage barrel. Considerably less powder is needed with duplex.

 

[MK85Shooter]

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=5573

Here is a very good over-view on duplex, why it was developed, and how its used. This forum has been locked on this site for quite some time but the info is available to read.