Lehigh breechplug issues

[txhunter58]

Still got some issues with the new Lehigh plug in my LRH. Shoots great, but the 209 primer is still getting stuck after the shot. It just seems like the primer is a little too big for the set up. I am using Remington STS primers. A couple of times I thought I was going to have to get a hammer to get the bolt back.

If I just push the primer in and eject it without firing it, I can tell it has caused some compression on the primer.

That said, when I backed off on the powder charge to below 100 gr. it was easier to get out.

Do I need to use a skinnier primer? If so, what do you suggest.

 

[sabotloader]

txhunter58

If you got them try some W209's they are a bit longer than the Rem but they are also not as thick. I have the same problem with the regular CCI-209.

The Win W209's and Win T7's work very well for me...

Here is an abbreviated length chart.

 

[txhunter58]

Thanks, I will see if I can find some Winchester 209s.

 

[Anonymous]

I use standard CCI primers in my Lehigh Gen II plug in my Green Mountain .54 Brush Gun and have shot 15 times in a row without any ejection issues. I shoot anywhere between 110 and 120 grains of Blackhorn 209.

 

[jsteurrys]

Are you getting a good face seal on the primers? If you are, you can open up the ID of the primer pocket about a .001" to .2425-.2430 which should minimize the sticking. Some primers end up sealing on their OD which opening up the ID would increase blowback if this was the case.

 

[sabotloader]

txhunter58

You know one thing I forgot to ask... Did you think you have one of the new Generation II plugs? or because of all the things that happened i wonder if Lehigh forgot to switch out the plugs and you still have a Generation I plug??? (even the primer adapter has been changed with Gen II)

If you have a mic you can measure the depth of the 'Primer Pocket' - the Gen II plug will measure 0.195" from the primer shelf to the top of the pocket...

 

[GM54-120]

That does sound a little bit like a GenI plug. I tried several primers in the GenII (outside of the rifles) and they all appeared to NOT seal on the OD. They all appeared to hit bottom (out of the rifle). The GenI seemed to seal on the bottom OD of the primers or higher on the primer sides and extraction was harder.

I used a dremel and polishing bit in my GenI primer pocket with a little success. They extract easier but the seal isnt as good as the GenII.

The longer primers gave me the best bottom seal including: Win209s, WinT7s and Fed209As. All of those also have a nickel/chrome like finish and not brass or copper cup....not sure if that matters or not.

I didnt even try the CCI209Ms in the last one i put in the Extreme 50 since the 3 primers i prefer worked well. They all showed a slight crush on the bottom that IMO is critical for the system to work.

Even Rons modded head spaced CVA plugs confirm my suspicion. It is spotless in the WinAPex and i meen spotless with Win209s. They also show signs of a crush fit on the bottom of the primer.

I will try the CCI209Ms tonite in my Extreme 50 and GMB54 with a report. They are the closest rifles i have to a LRH in terms of build dates and slight design variations.

I noticed the more carbon on the sides of the primers, the harder it was to eject/extract. The GMB54 was extremely hard to extract with some primers too which also leads me to think it has a chance at being a GenI plug or a modded GenI plug.

Texhunter58 pm me if you think i may be able to help. I can loan you a GenII breach plug if needed. Until then please try the Win209s and the WinT7s and report back. Post pics of the primers if you can also. It will help me see what is going on.

I really want this to work out for you. Im thrilled with mine now and hope everyone will be happy with theirs too.

Scott

 

[GM54-120]

txhunter58

You know one thing I forgot to ask... Did you think you have one of the new Generation II plugs? or because of all the things that happened i wonder if Lehigh forgot to switch out the plugs and you still have a Generation I plug??? (even the primer adapter has been changed with Gen II)

If you have a mic you can measure the depth of the 'Primer Pocket' - the Gen II plug will measure 0.195" from the primer shelf to the top of the pocket...

Yes it is and works far better than the first version. Im not sure why but primers fall out of the adapter MUCH easier. I would love to have just the adapter for my GenI in the GMB54 but for the cost i should just buy another complete conversion.

From what im reading you might be correct about his problem.

 

[txhunter58]

Well, this one I received free about a month ago without asking them to send me one, so I assume it is a Gen II. The adapter certainly is because it slides on with ease.

I will try the other primers and get back to you.

 

[txhunter58]

Ok, when I take the breechplug out of the gun and just try and INSERT IGNORE a primer into it, here is what I get:

Remington STS: Won't go just with moderate hand force.

CCIM: Will go in with moderate force, but then is hard to extract by hand.

Win 777: goes in easy and falls out.

Do you think I have a Gen II adapter and a gen I plug?

 

[sabotloader]

txhunter58

If you got a free one on the mail - that was the Gen II plug.

Try some Winchesters and see what you think - they really should even seal better than the STS's....

 

[wallygater]

What do I have to do to get one free in the mail? :shock:

 

[txhunter58]

You missed that boat! Was for the few that ordered one initially that didn't work. Not only did he refund our money for the one we had gotten, but he sent out one at no charge when he made the changes.

 

[txhunter58]

Ok, got a box of Winchester 209 primers (not 777). "They slide into the breech plug and eject easily without any force. I will shoot again this weekend, so I will see how they do. Sounds like this will fix my problem.

 

[GM54-120]

Good deal, either worked fine in mine too and the FED209A was a close 2nd if you need a mag primer.

After shooting them look at the flame side and look for a "clean" circle in the residue. My Elite prefers the Win209A and the Extreme seems to be a bit better with the T7s....ease of use and cleanliness both being considered in my opinion.

IMO each gun will be slightly different but starting with the longest option might be a good idea to see which is best in yours.

 

[txhunter58]

Thanks for all the help guys! That is why I come here.

 

[GM54-120]

Thanks for all the help guys! That is why I come here.

Very glad to help and the invitation of other help is always open. I feel its a good product/company and when someone has a problem with it, i really want to know why so i can give you some starting points that might help.

BTW the last time out i oiled up the bolt and breach far more than i normally do. I used RemOil since its what i had handy. I was amazed by the results at the range that day.

The following day of cleanup was much better than i expected in the Extreme 50.

I look forward to your next post on your results with Win primers. Im not saying they are the best but ive had very good luck with them in all my 209 guns.

 

[Busta]

You missed that boat! Was for the few that ordered one initially that didn't work. Not only did he refund our money for the one we had gotten, but he sent out one at no charge when he made the changes.

Not in every case. Mine didn't work in any (4) of my rifles. After all the hype from Grouse and waiting for over 7 months after he gave his blessing, I was expecting something that would actually work, I didn't get that. The machine work was top-notch just like everything Lehigh Dave does, but the dimensions that they decided to go with was not good at all for any of my rifles or primers. The primer loading gate in the bolt adapter was way too tight, I couldn't even get primers to go in without forcing, not to mention having to remove the bolt to get unfired primers out. The plug had is own set of dimensioning issues as well.

I wasn't happy, and voiced my opinion on the board to give what I consider my internet friends the heads up. Dave didn't take kindly to my throwing up the red flag, and even though I was offered a new plug like the rest of you guys that bought the earlier plug that didn't work, he decided to go back on his word. I even offered to pay again for a conversion that might actually work, but I guess that isn't happening either.

He is the one that released the first conversion that didn't work in most rifles. I expect a company to due enough R&D BEFORE releasing a product, and if it were ANY other company, I would again alert everyone of their shortcomings. He looked at it like I was alerting his "CUSTOMER BASE", when in all reality, I was alerting my "FELLOW MUZZLELOADING ENTHUSIASTS" of some great machine work that had several dimensioning issues. I come from the "MEASURE TWICE, MACHINE ONCE" school of thought, some don't. I did use the phrase "what a joke" in my alert, and for my rifles it still is. I think that is what got Dave miffed at me, and why he retracted his original offer to send the Generation II conversion. IMO, there should have never had to be a Generation II, but again that is just MY opinion.

I have had the Knight NFPJ conversions modified to fill my needs over the last couple years, so it isn't like I can't shoot my Knights without a Lehigh plug.

Moral of the story: Be careful what you post on the net, some people don't want to hear the truth. :wink:

I am glad to see that they seem to have finished the R&D for you other Knight shooters.

 

[txhunter58]

Well, we all screw up. And this was a big one that cost him LOTS of money. Not only in refunded money and in returned product, but in more R&D and retooling. All it cost us was some inconvenience. Not getting it right the first time is water under the bridge just like any mistake. From that point on, he seem to do everything he could to make it right. He even had me send him my gun (at his cost) to find out why it didn't work. He fixed the problem on my gun, and returned it, again at no cost to me, along with a new Gen II plug.

True, I am still having a problem with the primers sticking, but that was happening with STS primers and my original Knight breechplug. This gun just needs a slimmer primer.