HOLY !@#%*&

[Confederate rifleman]

Went out today with the Black Diamond and some 300 grain ( non-mag) .45 Hornady XTP's and 90 grain( weighed) charges of Swiss 3f.I also started indexing the sabots.THANK YOU to whoever came up with that idea! Definately works for me. All groups were 3 shots at 100 yards. Group #1 - 1 1/16 inchs Group2 - 5/8 inch and Group 3 - 1 inch on the dot.Had 1 called flyer when a CCI musket cap disintegrated , even with that all 10 shot were grouped into 2 1/8 inches. Without the flyer 9 rounds in 1 7/16 with a horizontal dispersion of 5/8 inch :shock: .Fouling was a non-issue but recoil...Lets just say she INTRODUCED herself! She only weighs 7 lbs.
I checked out several sabots , Harvester Crush Ribs, and found a major difference between those shot with Triple 7 and black. The one's shot with black showed a significant flaring of the sabot base( skirt)compared to one's shot with Triple 7.This I did not expect as T7 produces higher pressures than black.However black has a sharper pressure curve so perhaps the sabots get an initially greater kick from the black and possibly seals the bore quicker toccasionally I get alittle fouling on the sides of the sabot with T7 but have found none , so far, with black.This is the heaviest powder charge I've ever dumped down a barrel.God bless and help you 150 grain shooters! :shock:I will chrono this load as soon as I can.My velocity goal is mid 1500's to mid 1600's as this bullet is rated to 1700.This will be my " If it bites, claws or gores " load.
Another happy surprise is that it is easier to swab the barrel clean between rounds with the black powder loads than it is with T7. The breech plug is another story though.The threaded portion of the plug, ahead of the nipple seat , REALLY gets a hard clinker in it.I use a 270 bore brush to scrub it out.I began applying bore butter to the recess of the plug and that threaded portion and the fouling comes out nice as you please!I'm going to get another plug and have that extra threaded portion smoothbored. This IS more fun than a human being should be allowed to have...

 

[cayuga]

My Black Diamond XR also likes black powder.. and it is a good shooter no matter what I seem to feed it.

 

[horsefly]

I also started indexing the sabots.THANK YOU to whoever came up with that idea! Definately works for me.

what do you mean by indexing the sabots? i've never herd of that before?

 

[EndeavorShooter]

I also started indexing the sabots.THANK YOU to whoever came up with that idea! Definately works for me.

what do you mean by indexing the sabots? i've never herd of that before?

Horsefly, This is a write up by Busta that will explain it as good as anyone could. I found this by doing a search then just copy and pasted it here.

I always try to index my sabots for better consistency by figuring out where the lands will bear fully on the petals. Now this is easy with a 8 land and groove barrel, and a 4 petal sabot. Once you figure out which way your rifling is going to move accross the petals, try to line up one land wher it starts about where the petal meets the base, it will angle accross the petal to where the land next to it runs out at the opposite end and side of the petal. Some of them have a huge gap between petals so you will have to figure out where it works best.


Now with that said, I have an older MK-85 and a White G-series that have only six lands and grooves. I also have a White M-98 Elite that has a Bo Clerke barrel with 7 lands and grooves. You can still figure out the best place to index these where the sabot petals are maximized.

For you non-believers, next time you shoot load one sabot where two lands ride on each petal, then load one where the four lands are riding right down the split and the other four dead center in the petal. You will imediately notice how easy the last one loads. This is why people say some load very hard and then one goes in real easy. I guarantee you will shoot more accurately and get more consistant velocities if you optimize your sabots.

Once you figure it out, it is real easy to repeat. It is easier with a rifle that has a front site, my Disc Elite is a little tougher.

 

[horsefly]

thanks recordbook i never herd of anything like that before. this is why i come here everyday, cause i all ways seem to learn something everyday.

 

[NorCalSkinner]

Confederate rifleman.... another excellent post! Thank you!

Oh, and please add me to the "believers" on indexing sabots! Busta, thanks again!

 

[Confederate rifleman]

you're welcome

Thanks for the encouragement ! This is a consistently excellent site in terms of both quality of people and information.Learning and , in some cases, relearning the art of the muzzleloader is an extremely rewarding pursuit.It is , of course, even more worthwhile when it results in a gutpile and a sore back!
I've got a couple range buddies , including a cast bullet benchrest shooter ,who are occasionally dumbstruck by the capabilities of an aperture sighted muzzleloader.There are times I look through my bino's and think about quitting while I'm ahead! Although I like scopes, I also like the near indestructability of a quality aperture sight.Once you get used to it the acuracy difference isn't all that great.Scoped I think she'd be a 1 holer, and a small one at that, with this load.
Life is good...

 

[NorCalSkinner]

""I've got a couple range buddies , including a cast bullet benchrest shooter ,who are occasionally dumbstruck by the capabilities of an aperture sighted muzzleloader.""

I can not agree with you more!!!!

I might also add that the greater power setting on a scope is not always the best..... My father taught me when I was 14 years old that "greater is not better." In fact, that target I posted shooting in the kneeling position at 100 yds last week was shot at 3X... I did take a peek at the target at 10x, but at 10x the movement appears so much greater, that you become very hesitant to keep squeezing that trigger! So I shot at 3x and examined the hit at 10x... it works!

Enjoy the journey!

 

[big6x6]

I'm betting you are going to get to your velocity goal!

Don't worry about hurting the non-mag .452 300gr XTP.. I can promise it is good to 1900fps!

 

[Confederate rifleman]

recoil BAD

Its not the bullet I'm worried about so much as my neck and shoulder! Its the " No permanent damage" the Dr. told me about after I got rear ended 5 years ago :cry: .Recoil is a problem for me.its also why I like muzzleloaders and certain centerfire deer rounds as they give terminal effects WAY out of proportion to their paper ballistics.
Started shooting inlines with T/C Cheap Shots over 40 gr ( volume) of 3f T7. 1320 fps ,chrono'd, and that load has killed 9 deer at ranges of 15 ft to 115 yards and all save 2 were pass throughs.Nothing has gone more than 60 yards after the hit.I shoot heavier loads now., my Black Diamond doesn't like loads much under 50 grains...But I do have 100% confidence in big bore magnum handgun power levels.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Chrono'd

The load 90 grains Swiss 3f under a 300 grain Hornady XTP in a Harvester Crush Rib sabot Average muzzle velocity 1608 fps . High round was 1624 fps , low was 1593 fps. Accuracy remains increadible. Largest group was 1 1/4 inch for 3 at 100 yards. The smallest was 5/16. Yes 5/16" :shock: Today was my lucky day! I wonder what she'd do scoped!? This is one of those "who cares if she'll do it again" moments.She DID it.So , the lesson here, index sabots, weighed charges of GOOD propellant and shoot the rifle like you expect it to shoot.By this I mean shoot every rifle like its a target gun.Use your best bench techniques , breath , trigger control and follow through.Use high visability targets and proper sight picture.I once shocked alot of people by shooting sub 4 inch 200 yard groups with a 100% stock Chinese SKS with reloads.Instead of shooting it like it was a combat type bullet hose , I shot it like it was a good hunting rifle.It worked.
Speaking of targets, I use 1 inch wide black stripes in the shape of an inverted T. This gives me and excellent horizontal reference and the vertical line helps minimize canting.I've done good work at 2 and 300 yards with that target and a No4 MK2 Enfield...Wider stripes of course...