Breech plug problem?

[Flatlander.54]

I shot my Omega last weekend and had a problem.

First shot, so much smoke blew back in my face I thought the barrel had busted. For several seconds after the first shot there was lots of smoke coming out of the ramrod channel, out the inlet for the trigger group, and out the area under the breech where the hammer inlet is.

Second shot...nothing...everything was fine.

Third shot...more smoke rolling out from all areas previously mentioned.

Fourth shot....nothing, everything fine again.

On the first shot I assumed I had missed some oil when wiping the barrel out preparing to load. Im at a loss to explain this one...maybe a bad breech plug??? I checked and checked and re-checked the full length of the barrel...no splits or fractures anywhere. When it throws the smoke...theres so much of it you feel like your standing on the wrong end of the gun. And just to clarify...no...the wind was not blowing smoke back into my face. I actually saw smoke rolling out of all the aforementioned areas. How in the world would smoke be making it down the ramrod channel??? Any suggestions would be most appreciated, thanks.

Accuracy has went to hell also...last year this was a sub MOA gun...now groups are 4-5" @ 100 yds. :?

 

[frontier gander]

what primers were you using? I get smoke out of the forearm on my Accura when i use Winchester 777 primers.

If accuracy went to hell, i'd probably not shoot it until it was stripped down. Check any welds on my barrel lugs for cracks.

 

[Flatlander.54]

My load is the same load I have always used. 250 gr. Shockwave over 100 gr. loose T7 with Winchester T7 primers...never had this problem before.
I checked the barrel and lug welds extensively, fired several primers with a cleaning patch on the jag run down the bore (no powder of course) while the stock was off the barrel to see if I could spot any smoke escaping anywhere....nothing.
I will recheck the barrel and lugs tonight when I get home from work...might try the primer/patch over jag thing again, only this time in the dark to see if I find any fire coming out somewhere it shouldnt.
I have had several Omegas and have never had this problem before...I have to admit that it has me thoroughly stumped.

 

[frontier gander]

sounds like its just the primer fouling that ive been getting. Theres a small hole in the barrel just under the 209 primer and it allows excess gasses to escape and go under the barrel & into the forearm.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Do you need to ream out the hole under the primer with an 1/8" bit? When this hole gets carboned up, my Omega starts to blow back and accuracy decreases.

When ever i install the breech plug without teflon tape or any kind of grease, it will smoke pretty good (bad?). It really smokes when i install it with Hoppes #9 still damp in the threads.

Teflon tape and an 1/8" bit may fix your problem.

 

[Flatlander.54]

Ron, I will check it out, I always use grease on the breech plug threads, so I dont believe thats the problem.

I know the hole under the primer your talking about, but dont understand how the hole being clogged could contribute to blowback and accuracy loss.

And, cant figure out why the gun doesnt do it on every shot...it may do it everyother shot, or every third shot...but not every single time. ??????

Beats me...like I said before, I have never seen an Omega do this before.

 

[Semisane]

Hey Flatlander, I've read through your post several times over the last few hours, looked at my Omega, thought about the details you described, and have to tell you I'm totally stumped.

If it were doing it every time I would suspect an eroded flash hole in the breech plug - but that doesn't seem to be the case. I agree with your observation regarding the gas escape hole under the primer - now way it could cause smoke.

If the flash hole is not enlarged, the plug's threads are not compromised, the barrel threads are not compromised, and the plug isn't cracked, the only suspects left are the primers and powder. Maybe you got a pack of really bad primers and some have double loads of priming compound. Inconsistent ignition could also account for the accuracy problems. You didn't say how old your Triple 7 is. If it's a year old or so, I would try some fresh powder.

Whatever happens, please keep us posted.

 

[Underclocked]

You might try removing the barrel and action from the stock, plug the 209 cup on the plug with a tight rubber plug of some sort, then stand it with the muzzle sticking straight up. Carefully fill the bore with very hot water and see if any water runs out where it shouldn't.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=11690 might be of some benefit.

 

[Flatlander.54]

We are in the process of moving all this week. Im hoping to be done by Saturday evening, then I can get into that Omega really well.
The water trick sounds like it might work to find a crack, might work even better with rubbing alcohol, it seems to be able to wick into small places better than water.
The primer hole, all threads, and all welds seem to be ok from visual inspection, Im using thread grease on the plug, theres no left-over oil in the bore or breech plug...you would think that if there were a bad weld or crack that you would see powder residue on the surface of the barrel or inside the stock. The aforementioned hole under the primer is clean as a whistle....the whole situation just makes no sense. Not to mention the fact that it does not do it on every shot. But, when it DOES do it...you literally think the barrel has blown out on you...theres THAT much smoke and its all blown right back in your face. Hopefully I can get it figured out cause gun season is about a month and a half away and I cant afford a new gun. :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[smong2000]

Hey, my Omega was doing that a little bit last week. The was a lot of flame cutting in the primer well and my spent primers were getting pretty black. Like you, it only happened once and a while. I think it was intermittent because some primers made a better seal than others. I know it was blow by because of the discoloration of the primers and it was always on one side, presumably under the cut line. New BP and mine's all better. There's almost a crush fit now of the primer, no blow by or discoloration and no smoke so far.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

When I had an Omega , i found that when she started to spit or shoot fat groups, a change of breech plug always corrected the problem.My experience was they last about 4-500 rounds.

 

[Flatlander.54]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I will check the breech plug again as well. Been working long hours t work, and moving into a new house in the evenings so I havent had much time for anything else. The Omega is at the new place with the rest of the guns, will try to remeber to grab it while we are over there tomorow night and give it another inspection. I suspected a breech plug problem at first but found nothing amiss with it. Could be that I missed something. I would be happy to find its only a matter of a new plug.

 

[Flatlander.54]

Well, I took the breech plug to work with me today and let it sit in an Ultrasonic cleaner for a couple hours. It cleaned up real nice of course, but I see no evidence of gas cutting anywhere. Matter of fact...it looks nearly brand new after the Ultrasonic cleaning. Will inspect the rest of the gun tonight and see if I can find anything.

 

[coop2564]

Still think its your BP get a new one cheapest wAy to start elimanating problems if u can't see it!

 

[Flatlander.54]

Just my luck....

New powder, new primers...same problem. And now another problem...got a broken trigger. And I mean broken, snapped in half. Dont know what happened...was closing the swinging breech after cleaning the gun at home and felt a minor resistance, opened the breech back up, nothing blocking it, tried to close it again and felt the same thing, checked it again with barrel out of the stock...nothing blocking the action. Tried to close it a third time with barrel out of the stock and felt same resistance. I figured there was a piece of crud in one of the pivot pins so I squeezed just a tad harder and "ping"...trigger was laying on top of my foot. :shock:

Sent the gun in to T/C with opening day a little less than 6 weeks away. Hopefully I'll get it back in time to re-zero and go hunt.

 

[Bucker]

TC

They have great CS, however I would be adding a push phone call w/ the season that close maybe every 7 working days call and inquiew, restate the time issue, who knows might get a new gun out of it.

 

[txhunter58]

I feel your pain about the trigger. I did the same thing last year!

Even with everything you have done to clean the breech, did you also ream out the rear primer pocket with a 1/8 inch drill bit? You can't really see all the primer crud that collects in there and a drill bit has to be used. I usually turn it by hand or with a pair of pliers but I usually get more crud than I would think could build up in there.

 

[Flatlander.54]

Sorry for the delay in posting, been busy at work, and computer service is out at home. I called T/C hoping to speed things up a bit, we'll see what happens.

The breech plug was spotless...I threw it in an ultrasonic cleaner at work, worked it over with brass brushes, solvent, hot soapy water...the works.

txhunter58....you say you had the same problem with the trigger breaking, did your swinging breech hang up or seem like it was stuck before it happened? What did T/C do? Replace the trigger only or the whole mechanism? Im curious as to what they will do with mine...I told the tech about the serious blow-back issue that happened before the trigger broke, and gave them my cell # in case there were any other questions about what was going on with the gun. At any rate, it will be interesting to see what theyre solution is. To be honest...Im hoping they just send a new gun and be done with it.

 

[frontier gander]

man that sucks! You need to get a back up rifle just for those crappy days.

 

[earlybird]

man that sucks! You need to get a back up rifle just for those crappy days.

Hello,i'm new here and was reading your post and saw the part about the broken trigger.I had the same thing happen to me last week.the breech just would'nt lock like it usually does and when i tried to force it the trigger snapped off right in my hand.