Since a PowerBelt is a conical with a "sub base"

[GM54-120]

I have 12 54/50 sabots that i removed the petals and made some moly wads for the cushion and additional seal under the conical.

This is my brain fart #4

Add a sub base made from the sabot without petals. Top is off with a moly wad and then add the conical with just a light coating of lube. Only one lube groove is filled nicely with a Lyman Super Moly and Liquid Alox mix ive wanted to try.

I just want to try this with BH209 to see if it helps or hurts. Since BH209 likes a snug seal its worth a try even though it kinda defeats the simplicity of a conical.

BTW i did talk to The Man and he said he has tried it and the right combo works well. The idea isnt much different than a shotgun slug and its cushion and sealing wads.

Will post the good and bad by Sunday night.

Scott

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

Do you want some 50 sub-bases? MMP makes them already I have a few I will never use.

 

[GM54-120]

GM54-120

Do you want some 50 sub-bases? MMP makes them already I have a few I will never use.

No, they are MMP purple 54cal sabots with the petals removed and lightly sanded smooth. I have a couple Barnes sabots from some 50/54 275gr Expander MZs to try too since they seem a tiny bit larger or harder.

Normal sub bases wont work with the conicals. They both must have flat surfaces and a wad between the two. The wad may not be needed but i already have some made and they add a bit more of a lube seal.

Using a normal 50 sub base and a 50 hollow base conical might be dangerous if it drives up into the skirt too far. If it works in the 54 i will try it in a 50 with some modded sabots.

The top of these are now flat (no petals) and the base of the conical is flat, not a hollow base. These same conicals shot well in my LK93 with 100gr BH209 so i already have a good safe load and sightin for comparison.

I only use the MMP sub bases for testing mostly when the powder cups are showing damage but accuracy is still "ok". I really want to try them with the EZ load MMP and Knight sabots and these 285gr Spitfire BTs. They need to be driven hard IMO for best results in a 1-28 but in a 1-24 ive gotten pretty good results with them and just 100gr charges.

Thank you though, i do use them occasionally so next time we do some trading ect, i would take them.

Tomorrow im also going to try more of the 357x45s since ive had good luck with them so far. The Elite shot the Barnes 140gr XPB great with 80grs and a orange PR sabot and 9mm XTP 147gr and a MMP blue sabot. The Acurra did too and recoil is super light. Plus CHEAP to shoot with some 9mm-357 bullets like the Berrys.

Have a good one, i got to get off to the range before all the BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG guys show up. Hopefully i will have time to hit the 200 yard slot too.

Scott

 

[GM54-120]

Well it appears to work and gained a little FPS by the POI compared to just a moly wad. At least it impacted a bit higher. The moly wads are a mix of Liquid Alox and Lyman Super Moly. Conicals are also coated in the same lube. My next ones will just be Liquid Alox then coated in moly powder.

This old LK93 is a hell of a shooter and handles 80-100gr of BH209 just fine with the FPJ conversion and upto roughly 400gr bullets. Tomorrow im going to up the charge to 100gr on the sub base test and try the Rem 50cal 385gr CLHP in a MMP sabot.

 

[frontier gander]

are these full bore conicals with just the plastic sabot (without pedals) behind the bullet?

 

[Busta]

GM54-120,

Very nice shooting. You may, or may not have gained any velocity with the homemade sub bases. Don't let the higher impact fool you, as slower projectiles will sometimes impact higher than faster ones. The slower bullets have more dwell-time in the bore, which leads to more barrel rise. I have been shooting full bore conicals up to 480 grains for 2 years with Blackhorn 209, and just a simple little .518" x .060" vegetable fiber gasket wad will seal the bore. Just the weight of the wad (2.2 grains) will actually cause the 480 gr bullet to leave the bore slower than without the wad. I know this goes against what we think we know, but the chronograph and POI tells the real story. The group without the wad was faster and impacted slightly lower on the target than the group with the wad. Another thing that should be noted is that the extreme spread was also much less with the group without the wad. These are .503" bullets in a .502" bore, but are essentially slip-fit and load with one finger on the rod. Just another train of thought.

Wad

480 gr w/wad

480 gr no wad

You can also make some cheap sub-bases for the .50 caliber flat based full bore conicals by buying a bag of 28 ga shotcups and cutting the base from the wad with a razor knife. These are much cheaper than cutting petals off sabots. Won't work in your .54 of course, but are perfect for the .50's. I much prefer the .518" diameter vegetable fiber gasket wads, as they also fill the grooves for a more waterproof seal. Sorry, I can't find my pic of the 28 ga bases right now.

 

[GM54-120]

are these full bore conicals with just the plastic sabot (without pedals) behind the bullet?

Yes and a felt moly wad between the conical and sub base.

 

[GM54-120]

Busta

Ive used quite a few .060 fiber wads and 28 gauge is almost 56cal (.550) according to the conversion charts ive seen. This was a test and if i like it, i planned on using modified Win AA shotshell wads next time.

32 gauge is right at .526
36 gauge is right at .506

Some smokeless ML guys have been using them for years for a variety of sub base uses.

They are MUCH cheaper. About $9 for 250 for Win AA 28s at Cabelas. Claybusters are even less.

BTW if i use 100gr and just a moly wad, POI is roughly 3" higher than the 80gr charge in the same gun. These conicals are fairly tight too and seem a tiny bit harder than pure lead.

 

[Busta]

GM54-120,

I am aware that 28 ga bore is approximately .550", but the Claybuster WAA28 Replacement Wad Model #CB 1034-28 base is tapered, they measure .504" at the top and .510" at the base (skirt) and .530" at the shotcup which gets cut off. The bases are WAY too loose in the .54, I just double checked in my .54 caliber. They are perfectly sized for the .50 caliber bores IMO.

I'm not saying they wont fit in the .54, but they drop right to the bottom. They would flare out and fill the bore after ignition, but the top end of the base will not seal the bore and ride squarely up the lands.

I understand about using more powder (100 grains) to, the bullets will obturate tighter in the bore than they will with 80 grains. You are also pushing 20 grains more powder up to a point (until it burns), which will also give more barrel rise and a flatter bullet trajectory.

My White bullets are slightly harder than pure lead as well, but I haven't checked the actual hardness. I guess I could take them to work and check the Rockwell to compare to pure lead. With a .001" over bore bullet, you get .0005" engraving at each land.

 

[GM54-120]

Well i spent most of the day teaching my friend and his son about the basics. Made sure they both could load 10 on their own without me hovering over them.

Worked up 2 loads for both rifles they liked. My friend REALLY liked the 200gr SST in a Harvester CR 50x40,100gr BH209, Win209 and it shot surprisingly well too off the sled. Both liked the mild 45LC 250gr GoldDot
load in both guns.

The little 200 SST got his attention since it would clover leaf at 75 yards and 1" high.


Results of the sub base are inconclusive. I know one thing for sure, even with the un weighted sled it begins to hurt.

I did learn at 40 yards

100gr of BH209 and the sub base, wad and conical was a bit much. It shot the highest off the sled and would blow the FPJ off the nipple. The big Rem CoreLok and MMP purple did not have a FPJ problem but it hurts off hand. :lol: Both had very similar POI and weight on the sled.

I didnt test 90gr but its might be the sweet spot if i want a bit more fps and still good accuracy. All shot really really well for close range work.

80grs with the sub base and wad shot to a similar POI as a 50cal 300gr SST and MMP purple. Both are far more pleasant to shoot and shot right in the middle of all the combos.

I really liked the milder 50cal 300gr SST load actually.

80gr and just a felt wad shot the lowest POI but just barely and the Rem 385gr CoreLok was also almost identical with the same powder charge. Not too surprising since they both have close to the same total weight and fairly close range.

The most important lesson. IM AM NOT SHOOTING IT OFF HAND AGAIN UNTIL MY SLIPON ARRIVES!!!! :lol:

Luckily it will be here by Thursday.

Oddly the moly lube residue didnt seem to hurt the sabot accuracy. It was mostly liquid Alox though on the conicals. I shot the sabot loads after i was done with the conicals for a comparison.

It sure is one hell of a good shooting gun within its powder/range limits though. So simple and so light with just a peep site. It even shoots MMP 54x45 sabots and a 300gr Scorpion extremely well out to 65 yards.

Ive gotten my burning gun powder fix for a little while.

Scott.

 

[saxman1]

:? :? :? :?
This is one of the reasons I keep coming here
So much to learn and so many good teachers.

 

[GM54-120]

This was all just for fun.

I already know the loads it really likes and I really like. I wanted this gun very simple except i did want a FPJ instead of the percussion caps. I cant shoot worth a dung pile with normal open sites but i really like this peep.

My Knight slipon recoil pad arrived. It very soft and thick compared to the rock hard buttstock. :lol:

This was one of Knights cheapest models in the mid 1990s but you wouldnt know it by the quality trigger and accuracy.