Muzzleloader restrictions

[RidgeRebel]

Here in Utah our ML elk season is about to changed and it's not going to good. The purposed season would fall in the middle of Oct right between 2 rifle hunts making the elk very pressured and almost impossible to find. They are giving the rifle hunters a far better season the first week of Oct.
Alot of people argue that the harder ML season is justified due to the technology in Muzzleloaders saying that you can kill elk as effectively as with a centerfire rifle. However in UT we can not use scopes over 1x magnification so your shots are still pretty limited. Anyway I my question here is how many of you in any state would be willing to be forced to shoot more primitive weapons to be allowed a mor favorable season much like CO. and other states?

 

[cayuga]

Personally I find it funny that hunters that differ in weapons argue over who had the best of what. But getting back to your question. Personally I would not have a problem hunting primitive for elk if it gave me say a rut season. Or a season where I could call them in. But the idea that a modern muzzleloader is equal to a center fire rifle is nonsense. Any time someone says that I ask them ... how many shots a minute can you get off with your center fire VS muzzleloader? What distance can you shoot out to with a modern center fire VS a muzzleloader? What's the dependability of your ignition system? Granted a scoped modern muzzleloader has been pushed to some amazing limits, but its no center fire by a long shot.

 

[Semisane]

Personally, I think all of this special season stuff is a lot of foolishness.

It all started many years ago with game departments yielding to pressure from bow hunters who wanted their own early season to hunt unpressured animals. Then along came the muzzle loaders. What next, a handgun season? A single shot cartridge rifle season? A crossbow season? I'm sure the income from special licenses is welcomed by the states.

I believe the game departments should be managing the herd and not concern themselves with the weapon used by the hunter.

There may be special circumstances in some regions that call for "special seasons" as part of the herd management plan, but I just don't see the need. Here in Louisiana we get 3 buck tags and 3 doe tags. Bow season opens Oct 1, then "primitive weapons" for a week in mid-November, followed by the regular gun season until the last week of January, then another week of primitive weapons. Why not just have a "deer season" from Oct 1st to Jan 31st and let the hunter use whatever legal weapons he chooses during that period.

I usually take three deer a season, though I could easily take the legal limit of six. I've hunted with a bow during bow season, a sidelock muzzleloader during the primitive weapons season, and with both cartridge rifles and muzzle loaders during the gun seasons. If there were only a "deer season" I would still hunt with a muzzle loader most of the time, and have no quarrel with those who choose to use cartridge rifles or bows.

 

[UtahRob]

Here in Utah our ML elk season is about to changed and it's not going to good. The purposed season would fall in the middle of Oct right between 2 rifle hunts making the elk very pressured and almost impossible to find. They are giving the rifle hunters a far better season the first week of Oct.
Alot of people argue that the harder ML season is justified due to the technology in Muzzleloaders saying that you can kill elk as effectively as with a centerfire rifle. However in UT we can not use scopes over 1x magnification so your shots are still pretty limited. Anyway I my question here is how many of you in any state would be willing to be forced to shoot more primitive weapons to be allowed a mor favorable season much like CO. and other states?

I hear ya . Write and e-mail the UDWR and let all your friends know as i did . This may not happen . If it does i MAY just give up hunting big game . Not worth all the $$$ for 8 days . The area i hunt for elk ( N .Cache ) there are VERY FEW deer and where i hunt for deer there are NO elk . I can not hunt both at the same time , It will also force more people into areas that do have both . Sadly here in Utah its all about $$$$ and i think the UDWR has given up on the deer herds ( in Cache county) and are more into the elk. .
I am glad we have a 1x scope reg here in Utah it helps to keep shots some what short . BUT most states have WAY more deer than we do , so the Regs will be more relaxed . The lower the deer population the tighter the REG should be .

here is UDWR e-mail . Please give them a shout !!

[email protected]

 

[RidgeRebel]

Semisane
With all dew respect out west animal populations are not high enough for everyone to harvest deer every year. In most states out west the reason ing for special seasons is not cater to certain groups. It is a tool for managing agencies to allow more hunter opertunity without slaughtering the herds. If they only offered 1 hunting season the majority of hunters that take advantage of the archery and ML season would use a rifle. With a variety of different seasons more hunters are able to hunt each year.

 

[Semisane]

I hear ya` Rebel, and understand the differences in circumstances. That's why I said "There may be special circumstances in some regions that call for "special seasons" as part of the herd management plan".

But I suspect that most bow hunters (who clearly have a lower kill ratio) are also gun hunters.

I wonder if the kill ratio could be computed for various scenarios.

For example, how many "any weapon" tags could be issued to insure a kill of 100 animals, as opposed to some combination of bow tags, muzzle loader tags, and rifle tags for the same 100 animals?

If history showed that 50% of all cartridge rifle hunters score, you could issue 200 rifle tags for a 100 animal harvest.
If 25% of all ML hunters score, you could issue 400 tags for 100 animals.
If 10% of all bow hunters score, you could issue 1000 tags for 100 animals.

Assuming the above percentages, if you want to have three seasons of equal harvest (1/3 of the 100 animals in each season), you would issue 67 rifle tags, 133 ML tags, and 333 bow tags. That would give tags to 533 hunters. But how many are just the same person (i.e. bow hunters who are also ML hunters and cartridge rifle hunters).

Adding to the mix is the time frame allowed for the hunt. Give ten guys tags for one animal each and a 60-day season and they will likely spread themselves out over the time period without a great impact on harvest ratio. Give the same ten guys a 10-day season and they're all going to be in the field at the same time, possibly increasing danger and decreasing the quality of the experience.

Well DANG! It ain't easy being a game manager.