Oops, reread your post and saw that you stated it was the same bullet. Interesting how different the POI can be at 300 yards with such nice groups at 200. Any thoughts on why such a difference between your savage and triumph. Are the muzzle velocities very different?
The 300 yrd shot
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hjbuys said:
Yes the muzzle velocities are different.....1800fps for the Triumph vs. 2400fps for the Savage. Another bullet that works just as well for me is the 300gn Remington .458 HP. Check out this ballistic program. It will give you an idea of trajectories at different speeds.
Zen
Since we are talking about scoped muzzleload shooting, for me my goal was to be able to achieve 200 yard shots for Elk hunting. I believe I found the load I can do that with confidence. The bullet is a 285Gr. Barnes Spitfire over 100gr. of BH209. If I increase the powder, I loose accuracy. At 200 yards I'm getting 11 inched of drop. I don't plan on going beyond that since my scope doesn't have a BDC and I would guessing. And for me to attempt a 200 yard shot, I would have to be rested and good conditions. I think the key factor to making a shot on game is the person shooting needs to know their limitations. Everyone's limitations are different.
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Panhandle
I am not familiar with the Barnes original or atleast know them by a different name. Can you tell me more about them?
I am not familiar with the Barnes original or atleast know them by a different name. Can you tell me more about them?
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taylorhaught said:
Here's a look....
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=710530
They're a pretty tough bullet.
Cajun....
That seems to me to be an excellent choice for an Elk load. Tough bullet, shoots flat. Sighted in to zero at 150yd it shows to be a little over 6" low at 200yd with plenty of energy.
I've shot the fairly new 290gn TEZ's in my Triumph with good success.
Range Velocity Impact Energy
0 1800 -1.5 0 2050
25 1745 0.69 1927
50 1695 2.17 1818
75 1645 2.88 1713
100 1597 2.8 1614
125 1550 1.85 1520
150 1504 0 1432
175 1460 -2.8 1349
200 1418 -6.65 1273
225 1377 -11.57 1200
250 1338 -17.63 1133
275 1301 -24.91 1071
300 1266 -33.47 1014
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Great post panhandle. Yep, the smokeless muzzleloaders are certainly a different breed of rifles.
Of course Taylor is shooting a triumph and I agree with your thoughts on that:
"I've made 200 yds the absolute maximum range for that rifle. After that it the drop is too severe to be confident in making an ethical shot."
Nuff said.
Of course Taylor is shooting a triumph and I agree with your thoughts on that:
"I've made 200 yds the absolute maximum range for that rifle. After that it the drop is too severe to be confident in making an ethical shot."
Nuff said.
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Bingo!!!
Every year I track several wounded deer, hogs and elk for folks who make every excuse in the book. The "bullet did not expand," "shot him right in the boiler room don't know what happened," etc. Most of the animals I have recovered for other hunters were gut shot. Messed up and gut shot a couple myself last year but they were recovered.
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I know this isn't the smokeless board, but if anyone wants to know just about all there is to know about the Barnes Original that Panhandle used to take these deer here is a very informative thread from Dougs Message Board. This bullet has a huge following among Savage shooters.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thread=10215
There have been a few complaints about this bullet being too tough for whitetails and that it does not expand well, just punches a 1/2" hole in and out, and didn't leave much of a blood trail. These opinions represent the minority of reports and likely come from poor shots or a muzzle velocity that is too low to allow for proper expansion. In the 2200-2400 fps range out of a 50 cal smokeless muzzleloader you'd be hard pressed to find a bullet that will out perform the B.O.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thread=10215
There have been a few complaints about this bullet being too tough for whitetails and that it does not expand well, just punches a 1/2" hole in and out, and didn't leave much of a blood trail. These opinions represent the minority of reports and likely come from poor shots or a muzzle velocity that is too low to allow for proper expansion. In the 2200-2400 fps range out of a 50 cal smokeless muzzleloader you'd be hard pressed to find a bullet that will out perform the B.O.
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back in the day when shooters used a whitworth 451 cal the matches were shot out to 1000yds and were not a very big a group either{somthing like moa},the bullets were big chunks of lead somthing like 530grs loads were about 60 to 70grs of black.this was with open sights :shock: :shock: 8) 8)
so a 300yd shot is very doable maybe even secound nature for some but how many of us can shot that far?or even tried?
i have a whitworth and at 1 range i go to thier is a rock at 608yds i have shot at it afew times and to my :shock: i hit it more than once it's very 8) but would i shoot at game that far of course not it's just a rush when you squeeze the trigger let the smoke clear take a drink of water then hear the smmack on the rock.
IMO big chunks of lead will kill better the farther the target is{they have more energy}.we all have ethics don't get sucked into the extreme range shooting of wildlife.
sorry about the rant but it's my bday so i'll rant if i want 2 :wink: :wink:
so a 300yd shot is very doable maybe even secound nature for some but how many of us can shot that far?or even tried?
i have a whitworth and at 1 range i go to thier is a rock at 608yds i have shot at it afew times and to my :shock: i hit it more than once it's very 8) but would i shoot at game that far of course not it's just a rush when you squeeze the trigger let the smoke clear take a drink of water then hear the smmack on the rock.
IMO big chunks of lead will kill better the farther the target is{they have more energy}.we all have ethics don't get sucked into the extreme range shooting of wildlife.
sorry about the rant but it's my bday so i'll rant if i want 2 :wink: :wink:
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I don't have personal experience shooting that far, but a regular on another hunting website regularly takes deer with his Omega in the 200 - 300 yard range. He uses the 200 grain Shockwave, a BDC or Mil-dot scope, has a rangefinder, and practices a heckuva lot. He's also stated that he'd never even think about a long shot with the ML if there is any wind - wind affects ML bullets MUCH more than centerfire rifle bullets.
So sure, it's possible and in my book, ethical IF - you have the right setup (rifle/load combo) that will get you there, a BDC or Mil-Dot scope, a rangefinder, and you practice a lot at those ranges. 300 yards probably is really close to the limit though - even with a compensating scope and rangefinder, you just lose too much velocity, energy and trajectory to make 1 shot kills much past that.
So sure, it's possible and in my book, ethical IF - you have the right setup (rifle/load combo) that will get you there, a BDC or Mil-Dot scope, a rangefinder, and you practice a lot at those ranges. 300 yards probably is really close to the limit though - even with a compensating scope and rangefinder, you just lose too much velocity, energy and trajectory to make 1 shot kills much past that.
300 is a long way and it is more shooter than anything. I cannot honestly say I would go that far with anything but a smokeless rig. I do practice that far with my NULA and given the right opportunity... I would take the shot. ... The right opportunity would depend on where I hunt, wind, time of day, rest and whether or not I know the deer in my cross hairs.
:wink:
