Maybe the best on the range I have ever seen but not the best for hunting...Don't kid yourself this powder has hang fire issues with going in and out of cold...I never had this issue with pellets and 209's....but BH....hangfires are a fear...that use to be my fear when shooting cap powder and ball....but many never out of a hot 209? Now I shoot the hot cci 209m and have hangfire issues...yes I am loading tight yes I am doing right....BH209 IS A HANGFIRE POWDER!!!!!! Not that it is not good but its biggest issue is why these hang fires are coming after hunting with the gun in the field and then when the time comes.........hangfire...!!!
BH209
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First off, what kind of Muzzleloader are you using?
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I was always kind of concerned about this. My Black Diamond XR had hangfires on the range, but I am sure it is because of the shape of the breech plug. Now my Knight and Genesis did not, but again, I was shooting on the range and not hunting with it.. I hunted with Pyrodex P and never had a problem. In my White Bison I used Triple Se7en and never had a problem.
Your post is most interesting. I should try and get another jug of it and do some cold weather testing with a couple rifle.. like load them and leave them outside all day for a couple days and then see if I get any hangfires..
Your post is most interesting. I should try and get another jug of it and do some cold weather testing with a couple rifle.. like load them and leave them outside all day for a couple days and then see if I get any hangfires..
I was wondering if the hangups occur more often when the gun is moved from cold to warm conditions causing moisture to form inside the barrel. I was always told to leave a loaded firearm in the same temp room as the conditions being hunted in. If the firearm needs to be moved indoors then it should be moved indoors in stages in order to adjust to the temp.
Newbie here, trying to learn. zman
Newbie here, trying to learn. zman
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turkey said:
It seems to me that it is an issue with your rifle. My rifle has never failed to go off with authority, whether it is cold or hot, or dirty or clean, or in from the cold to a warm truck cabin. The other day i left my loaded Omega in the truck over night @ about 9*, and wrapped it in my coat and put it in the back whilst i drove up into the hills to where i could shoot. Shot it from the warm truck cabin, and it went off with much authority, and the bullet flew straight. Loaded 'er up with powder that had sat all night in the cold and touched 'er off again, and the bullet flew straight again. And again, and that was enough. I am done proving to myself that BH209 is a good cold weather powder in my rifle. Season starts here on the 13th and all shooting from now till the seasons end will be at does, not at paper.
The load is 105g BH209 behind a 300g Shock Wave with the super glide sabot or a 300g sst with the easy load sabot. The powder is set off with a winchester shot gun primer.
I am going to leave all of my components outside overnight prior to going to the range in the morning to try to duplicate field conditions. I had an issue which I attributed to a loose fitting sabot, but have not proven this out yet by being able to duplicate. I will most likely do this test over the Christmas Holiday as Deer Season will be over.
Every hang fire or fail to fire that I have experienced has been a breech plug issue. Any plug that allows for ANY escape of flame/pressure prior to reaching the flash hole, is suspect to problems.
BH209 just simply won't work in every rifle/breech plug model. Then again, Western makes that very clear in their advertising.
Hunted this morning in 18 deg weather and snow. Black electrical tape over the muzzle. Removed the primer and propped my rifle up in the corner of the barn. I'll grab her in the morning and head back out with 100% confidence that it will fire without fail. I know it will, because I've been there done that.
The rifle and powder will not see the inside of the truck cab.
This is with a Knight Disc Elite 45 with the NFPJ conversion plug, 120gr BH, 200gr SST, and CCI 209M primer.
That said, I have two other muzzleloaders that I won't put anymore BH down on a bet.
IMHO, the problem is not with your powder. The problem is with the rifle you're trying to use it in.
BH209 just simply won't work in every rifle/breech plug model. Then again, Western makes that very clear in their advertising.
Hunted this morning in 18 deg weather and snow. Black electrical tape over the muzzle. Removed the primer and propped my rifle up in the corner of the barn. I'll grab her in the morning and head back out with 100% confidence that it will fire without fail. I know it will, because I've been there done that.
The rifle and powder will not see the inside of the truck cab.
This is with a Knight Disc Elite 45 with the NFPJ conversion plug, 120gr BH, 200gr SST, and CCI 209M primer.
That said, I have two other muzzleloaders that I won't put anymore BH down on a bet.
IMHO, the problem is not with your powder. The problem is with the rifle you're trying to use it in.
i had the same issue wednesday afternoon. knight disk converted to no plastic jacket. pulled the trigger to make meat and had a hangfire. loaded the gun inside the house, after popping off 2 cci standard primers.
couldnt believe it happened, and was very frustrated after missing the deer.
couldnt believe it happened, and was very frustrated after missing the deer.
Its deer season here in Ohio and I've carried my Omega all week with temps in the upper 20's with snow most of the time. I loaded it with 100grs of BH209 on Saturday and finally got to shoot my gun on Wed. After bringing my gun in every night and taking out every mornrng it fired just like its supposed to. I'm by no means an expert but I trust BH209 in my gun in all temps.............Did you notice I said fired my gun and not shot a deer?........stupid deer. 
I AM NOT HERE TO RAISE STINK...I am here because some have had no problems with the BH209 but SOME HAVE!!!
Here is my point we are all above average ML users if we were not we would not be on this form...
I dont like the fact that hang fires are happening and we all are taking the precautions we use to take and didnt experience hangfires then...
I am not out there on the range having hang fires...I am having hangfires after gun has had powder in it for a few days...
I just dont think this powder is as good as we thought it was going to be as far as a perfect ML hunting powder...
Call me crazy but it seems to foul breech more and have a hangfire issue...I have a lot of time and money invested in it and just want to say for the record I would rather have a 1/2 larger group at 100yards with no hangfire issues...I will be back to triple seven next season for sure!
Here is my point we are all above average ML users if we were not we would not be on this form...
I dont like the fact that hang fires are happening and we all are taking the precautions we use to take and didnt experience hangfires then...
I am not out there on the range having hang fires...I am having hangfires after gun has had powder in it for a few days...
I just dont think this powder is as good as we thought it was going to be as far as a perfect ML hunting powder...
Call me crazy but it seems to foul breech more and have a hangfire issue...I have a lot of time and money invested in it and just want to say for the record I would rather have a 1/2 larger group at 100yards with no hangfire issues...I will be back to triple seven next season for sure!
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Turkey, were you loading on a clean barrel that possibly had some oil left in the bore or inside flash channel of the breech plug? While shooting at the range, it may not have enough time to react with the powder and render it inert- maybe breech plug grease? I have not had a problem with BH yet and do not want to, just offering some possibilities. I have read several posts about hangfires and suggestions to prevent this condition, most of them suggest firing primers prior to loading. I wonder if the primer is hot enough to burn gun oils which are not real flammable? From what I have read, Blackhorn takes a higher ignition temperature- so it is not as easy to light as the powders we have used until now. I hope someone figures out what is the true cause of the hangfires because I couldnt think of a more frustrating thing to happen while hunting.
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To the guys that have experienced hangfires, are you drilling out your breechplug ( 1/8" drill bit by hand in the primer end- Knight NFPJ plug) and cleaning the orifice or flash hole with a nipple pick or pipe cleaner? This could be another possibility.
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This powder was designed around T/C Muzzleloaders in my opinion. Clean breech plugs in an omega,Encore or Triumph will show this powder is superior to all the rest by far. If you dont own these you might struggle some with it.
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Only hangfires I've ever had is when I tried it with a musket cap. I know...8)...I had to try
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Yesterday it was -4 degrees. After being loaded for a week and all day in the field my son and I fired off his Optima and my Triumph. No hangfires. We've shot four bottles of BH and none yet. I think that a tight sabot fit and plenty of pressure when seating the sabot is the key to good performance.
Zen
Zen
No hang fires for me but....
As I said in another forum I had 3 CCI 209 primers fail Thursday on three different deer. Bought some Fusion 209's and Thursday afternoon my PH went off like champ dropping a doe at 80 yards.
I love BH209 and can't imagine shooting anything else. EASY to clean accurate for me.
As I said in another forum I had 3 CCI 209 primers fail Thursday on three different deer. Bought some Fusion 209's and Thursday afternoon my PH went off like champ dropping a doe at 80 yards.
I love BH209 and can't imagine shooting anything else. EASY to clean accurate for me.
