Load for For Hornady bullets

[andersm1142]

Hello, I am new to this forum. I just bought a Savage 10-ML II and I have a few questions. I want to know how much 5744 powder I need to use to safely get my velocity as close to 2130 fps using the hornady 300 grain flex tip muzzleloader bullets. I have already ordered some of those special black mmp sabots that are recommended for smokeless loads and I plan on using federal primers. I do not have a chronograph but was wondering if anyone on here has developed any loads in that velocity range using that powder and bullet that produce decent accuracy? The reason for that target velocity is so it will match the ballistic reticle on my burris scope that I am putting on it. Any info or advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[younghunter_86]

Welcome! I've never shot that powder, so I can't really be of much help.

A good place to start would be the owners manual. I think 5744 is one of the recommended powders. Also do a search for 5744 in the smokeless forum here and see what you can find.

 

[Panhandle]

I don't think you'll get 2130fps with 5744 and a 300gn bullet. Even if you shoot 46gn which is over the recommended load of 42-44gn you barely get 2000fps. To get what you want you'll have to change to 4759, N110, N120, H4198, or RL7. These are the powders most commonly used in the SavageML. With those powders you can safely shoot 2150-2400fps using a 300gn bullet. My favorite powders are H4198 and RL7, between 65-68gn, 2250-2400fps. Many prefer N120 but it's harder to get without paying a hazmat fee for shipping. There's plenty of good shooting and performing 300gn bullets out there. You're going to love your new rifle, and good luck.
zen

 

[Grouse]

Cant safely do what you want with 5744. 4759 or N120 is your best bet.

 

[andersm1142]

Thanks for the info guys. I wonder why there is such a big difference in velocity between the powders. Going from less then 2000 fps with the 5744 to 2400 fps with some of the others is quite a big jump. Much different from centerfire cartridge loads that I am accustom to working with. If that is the case, why is the 5744 seem to be so popular and recommended? Is it more accurate or something? Despite not having a chance to go out and shoot yet, from the little research that I did, the 5744 seemed like the best way to go. Maybe I need to quit believing everything I read.

 

[big6x6]

AA-5744 just won't get there with a 300gr bullet. In fact I've never broken 2000fps using AA-5744 and a 300gr bullet. N-110 and SR-4759 both will give you that velocity. Here are some velocities I've gotten out of one of the 10ML-IIs I've owned:

300gr XTP/SST

40gr SR-4759 2030fps
42gr SR-4759 2089fps
44gr SR-4759 2157fps
46gr SR-4759 right at 2200fps

42gr AA-5744 1834fps
44gr AA-5744 1890fps
46gr AA-5744 1932fps

I'd probably try 43gr to 46gr SR-4759 and your 300gr bullet with a Harvester short black sabot.... This should put you right at the velocity you want and that it usually a VERY accurate and reliable load...

 

[Grouse]

Despite not having a chance to go out and shoot yet, from the little research that I did, the 5744 seemed like the best way to go. Maybe I need to quit believing everything I read.

5744 is a great powder for the savage. You asked to reach a speed 5744 cant do with 300grn bullets. Sacrifice a little speed and your fine. 5744 is very easy to ignite and you can scoop load it. The 3.1 dipper works excellant with 5744. The Federal primers are the worst to use in the Savage for smokeless. They will stick bad. They always have. CCI primers are the way to go. Winchester is better then the Federals. The short black MMP sabots are just fine. If your barrel is hard to load get the short black Harvesters. I would also get a sleeve put in your breech plug and toss the vent-liners. You wont regret that one bit.

BTW- All powders must be weighed out in the savage. 5744 is the only one you can scoop load. Measure all other powders by weight. A digital scale is about a must.

 

[elkstalkr]

I agree. My Savage did not like Federal primers either. I switched to winchester and haven't had a problem since. I hear CCI is great, but I have yet to use them.

Guys, could he go to a 250 grain bullet and achieve the velocity he wants?

 

[andersm1142]

Thanks for the advice guys. I called burris and asked for a reticle calibration on a velocity of 1950 fps with a 300 grain SST and I found out that with a slightly different zero (1.5 inches high @ 100 yds), the points of impact at long range aren't much different then with a 2130 fps velocity and a 100 yd zero. I will be trying to get my hands on some N120 at some point but until then. I think I'll just stick with the 5744. I found a local store that carries it but is currently out of stock. The shortage can't last forever. In the mean time, 5744 is readily available in most stores and the can I bought should last me a long time. Another question. Has anyone ever tried those Remington 300 grain 45-70 hollow points? They are the cheapest 45 cal bullet I could find and with the orange mmp .458 sabots, I thought this combo would make a good practice load for the range at half the cost of the premium bullets. Any thoughts?

 

[DW]

Thanks for the advice guys. I called burris and asked for a reticle calibration on a velocity of 1950 fps with a 300 grain SST and I found out that with a slightly different zero (1.5 inches high @ 100 yds), the points of impact at long range aren't much different then with a 2130 fps velocity and a 100 yd zero. I will be trying to get my hands on some N120 at some point but until then. I think I'll just stick with the 5744. I found a local store that carries it but is currently out of stock. The shortage can't last forever. In the mean time, 5744 is readily available in most stores and the can I bought should last me a long time. Another question. Has anyone ever tried those Remington 300 grain 45-70 hollow points? They are the cheapest 45 cal bullet I could find and with the orange mmp .458 sabots, I thought this combo would make a good practice load for the range at half the cost of the premium bullets. Any thoughts?

Those 300 Rem's are a great practice bullet as well as hunting. Very accurate with numerous powders using the Harvester Black Crush Rib sabot. The Harvesters are cheaper than the MMP orange also.

 

[andersm1142]

The savage manual claims over 2200 fps with 44 grains of 5744. Why is the real word velocity so much less at under 2000 fps? The other 2 listed powders with their respective velocity seem to be much closer to actual measured velocity numbers found here on the forum.

 

[big6x6]

The savage manual claims over 2200 fps with 44 grains of 5744. Why is the real word velocity so much less at under 2000 fps? The other 2 listed powders with their respective velocity seem to be much closer to actual measured velocity numbers found here on the forum.

That's a question I've always wanted answered myself.. One reason why a $100.00 chronograph is such a handy gadget to have....

 

[Bloodtrailer]

Rem .458 300

Cheep and shoot very well with sr4759

 

[MK85Shooter]

I've used Federal 209A from day one with no problems so far with about 600 shots fired. The breech plug that came in my gun has a loose primer pocket and I got quite a bit of blow back on the bolt. I got a new breech plug and the blow back went away. You just have to find the primer that fits best in your plug.

 

[Rich De]

Just curious why you would only want to shoot 2130 fps (aside from the scope thing) when your Savage is well capable of launching any of the 300 gr. bullets in the 24 to 2500 fps range? I don't believe any of those trajectories are going to perfectly match your scope anyway. So whynot just use the dots that do match? Unless you can verify very low Extreme Spreads in velocity (in the order of say 20 fps or slower) you can kiss those trajectory tables good by. The last few months (I shoot 30 to 35 shots a week - yep, retired) I have been shooting a duplex load with the 300 gr. Rem. bullet which I point up in a die I made. The load is 10 gr. of 5744 under 60 gr. of H-4198. RB who posts here has shot it and highly approves of it, besides a little recoil. My last seven shot string averaged 2460 fps with an extreme spread of only 7 fps and three of those shots were exactly 2461. With that low a spread, your trajectory tables will be relavent. I have seen too many loads which run 30, 40 or 50 fps ES and they ae just going to be up and down on your target. This, of course, is and opinion, but members on Doug's board can verify it. As was mentioned, invest in a chronograph and a pair of calipers. Measure your bullet/ sabot combinations to get the right fit. Whether you are shooting a .452 or .458 diameter bullet, you should adjust your sabots so they are all the same diameter. My Savage likes a combination that measures .508 to .509". I use one patch with four drops of Rem. bore cleaner in and out and one dry patch in and out between shots. If you do not clean, they these combinations will become too tight after the first shot. I post as Richard on Doug's board.
Rich De

 

[andersm1142]

I understand what you are saying about trajectory and velocity spread but I'm not trying to hit a bullseye on a piece of paper. I was thinking more along the lines of the vitals of a whitetail deer up to 300 yds assuming conditions are right. The reason for wanting the velocity at 2130 is that it almost perfectly matches the aiming marks on the scope reticle at easy to remember ranges of 100, 150, 200, 250 and 300 yds with the particular bullet that I am using. A spread of 50 fps either way isn't going to affect trajectory by more then a few inches even at the extreme-for-a-muzzleloader range of 300 yds. Wind at that range will be much more of a factor to deal with then actual range. Besides, the chances are greater in real hunting situations that my shot will not be exactly at those ranges anyway but somewhere in between. It would just be nice to have easy to remember reference points. As long as I can put the bullet into 10 inch circle at any range, I'm good to go. Not getting to 2130 fps isn't the end of the world. It just slightly changes the yardage marks of the aiming points to different ranges. As far as these duplex loads, I cannot seem to find them in the manual or any other published data source , so I think that for now, I am going to stay away from them. Thanks anyway though.

 

[Rich De]

I don't see much in the way of duplexing here on this forum. Try visiting The Savage forum on Doug's board and you will find a lot more. NO, you will not find them in the manual. Joe DeGrande's hair curls when I talk to him about duplexing
Rich De