Thoughts on BlackHorn 209.......

[lane]

I am going out to shoot some sabotless .452" bullets out of my .45 caliber 1:20 Knight with 120 grV of BH209 at over 2300 FPS for the 250 grainers, and over 2200 FPS for the 300 grainers. Try that with 777, and let me know how that works out for you? :wink: I am trying to get rid of the sabot, it is the weakest link in High Speed Muzzleloading.

The sabot is also the friend of Low=safe pressures. Because it takes less pressure spike to get the saboted bullet moving, than it does for a sabotless projectiles. This will add to increased blow-back, and possibly primer seperation. But I'm sure you've thought this thru already :wink:

 

[UtahRob]

For me, I don't think BH-209 is worth the added cost.

Ditto !!

They wanted 39.00 here in town i bought one and the other sat here for 6 months . I just bought my first Jug of 777 and will not shoot anything else . One wet patch (spit) and one dry is all it look between shots . Plus i get 16 oz not 10 for less $$$$ . Also the 209 primers were hard on my breech plugs so i made a .25 acp conversion BP . 100% seal , spotless around the firing pin and VERY VERY little carbon in the breech plug . And i get the same performance/accuracy . I wish i had done that years ago . I had a .25acp breech plug i bought, and though i didn't need it when BH209 came out . So i gave it away to saxman! ( hope he's doing better ) . The .25 acp plug was sooo easy to make, i now have three of them BUT may never need them . I just gave away the BH209 and Pyrodex i had .

 

[sabotloader]

lane

The sabot is also the friend of Low=safe pressures. Because it takes less pressure spike to get the saboted bullet moving, than it does for a sabotless projectiles.

Excellent point... and often over looked by most of us...

 

[coltchris]

All this discussion only proves one point; people will buy what they prefer and can afford. This is America and we are free to make our own choices; at least for awhile!!!!! My choice is BH-209 in spite of the cost.

 

[sabotloader]

Busta

Just in case you missed it the first time, I put it up in BOLD?

I did miss it.. thanks for the bold, but what has that got to with the price quotes you continually put up?

In most posts I have seen of yours you are always posting your cost of BH as ordered online but then quoting the price of T7 in your retail area. Compare costs apples to apples.

One thing I do agree with you is the price of T7 pellets - they are expensive - but i guess there are a lot of folks out there that like them like you like BH and can justify the cost... and that is OK

Another thing I do not understand your need for velocity, above the norm, i mean i thought i wanted velocity also, but if i were reaching for centerfire velocities why not just shoot a centerfire?

Also believe me, i really do not care that you are shooting BH, like someone said that is your choice, But it should be the choice of others to shoot the powder of their choice without hearing how inferior it might be to your choice, especially using information that is heavily slanted and biased, such as your constant price comparison.

I also believe Grouse has been shooting sabotted projectiles @ 24, 2500 fps also.

I have only been able to reach 2300fps with a 40/200 and 2000 fps with a .458/300 grain projectile, which really should do the job for me - actually it is an overkill for myself.

As i was telling someone on another forum, i am a hunter, not a target master, and in the 40 years of hunting in Idaho I bet my average shot on elk has been 75 yards and the average shot on whitetail/mule deer is probably 40 yards.

 

[toytruck]

I personally like triple 7 2Fg/3Fg in my Whites with #11 cap ignition, there are no crud ring issues, no swabbing issues, just shoot.

In the Encore with W209 ignition I prefer BH209 to triple 7, it shoots about the same but no swabbing and cleanup is almost the same as the Whites.

If I had to choose, between the two powders, I'd sell the Encore and stay with T7 and the Whites. :yeah:

 

[rat trapper]

I've been using Tripple Seven since it first came out. It shoots real well in my Knight Disc Extreme and works in my traditional TC Hawken rifles as well. I'm not against trying the Black Hawk 209 other than the cost and so far the local store does as yet have it in stock. The store owner is using it himself, so he may be getting it soon. Has anyone here tried the BH 209 in a Knight Disc Extreme ??

 

[coltchris]

Yes, many here have! You can do a search for many successful loads.

 

[lane]

lane

I know you know all about Trail Boss and it's cost...

But have you looked a IMR 4759? It is a bulky powder built like BH. round cylinder form.. yet look at it's price...

Yep, it defies logic, that BH209 can't be produced at the same cost of regular smokeless powders :?
I can't help thinking that someone is making a bundle by selling 10oz of slow-burning smokeless for about $8.00 more, than a full POUND of IMR4759 :x

Picked up some IMR4759 for the reloading bench tonight ($22.00)........this stuff looks very much like BH209, has slightly smaller holes and is a tad longer.....I threw two, 50g by Volume loads with my brass measure, and then weighed them both on my 502 balance beam scales......The IMR was just 1gW more than the BH209...

Very Interesting

 

[john keyes]

I still like Pyrodex RS. but its the only thing I've ever used....

 

[Lee 9]

lane

I know you know all about Trail Boss and it's cost...

But have you looked a IMR 4759? It is a bulky powder built like BH. round cylinder form.. yet look at it's price...

Yep, it defies logic, that BH209 can't be produced at the same cost of regular smokeless powders :?
I can't help thinking that someone is making a bundle by selling 10oz of slow-burning smokeless for about $8.00 more, than a full POUND of IMR4759 :x

Picked up some IMR4759 for the reloading bench tonight ($22.00)........this stuff looks very much like BH209, has slightly smaller holes and is a tad longer.....I threw two, 50g by Volume loads with my brass measure, and then weighed them both on my 502 balance beam scales......The IMR was just 1gW more than the BH209...

Very Interesting

Yes very interesting indeed. You would not have a way of checking on the potential enegry ?
Lee

 

[lane]

I'll get back to ya soon :wink:

 

[sabotloader]

I did not mean to start anything by mentioning IMR-4759, but it would be interesting if the pressure could be read. I mentioned it more becaue of it construction and it's price per POUND vs BH of simular construction.

 

[squirrelhawker]

lane

I know you know all about Trail Boss and it's cost...

But have you looked a IMR 4759? It is a bulky powder built like BH. round cylinder form.. yet look at it's price...

Yep, it defies logic, that BH209 can't be produced at the same cost of regular smokeless powders :?
I can't help thinking that someone is making a bundle by selling 10oz of slow-burning smokeless for about $8.00 more, than a full POUND of IMR4759 :x

Picked up some IMR4759 for the reloading bench tonight ($22.00)........this stuff looks very much like BH209, has slightly smaller holes and is a tad longer.....I threw two, 50g by Volume loads with my brass measure, and then weighed them both on my 502 balance beam scales......The IMR was just 1gW more than the BH209...

Very Interesting

Yes very interesting indeed. You would not have a way of checking on the potential enegry ?
Lee

Hey guys...be careful now- IMR sr4759 is one of the powders I use in my ML's.
And just in my savage. :wink: Dont even think about using it on a weight to weight basis to BH209. About 38 weighed grains of imr4759 will get me 2100 fps out of my 50's with 250 gr. saboted SST's. Savage only recommends 43 gr. 4759 with a 45 gr. MAX load. 70 gr. weighed 4759 would be DANGEROUS. If a guy wants to shoot smokeless....you got to be careful.

 

[lane]

Hey guys...be careful now- IMR sr4759 is one of the powders I use in my ML's.
And just in my savage. Dont even think about using it on a weight to weight basis to BH209. About 38 weighed grains of imr4759 will get me 2100 fps out of my 50's with 250 gr. saboted SST's. Savage only recommends 43 gr. 4759 with a 45 gr. MAX load. 70 gr. weighed 4759 would be DANGEROUS. If a guy wants to shoot smokeless....you got to be careful.[/quote]


Absolutely! Only use smokeless powder in guns rated for such, like the Savage and the SMI smokeless muzzleloaders!!! :!:

 

[squirrelhawker]

Hey guys...be careful now- IMR sr4759 is one of the powders I use in my ML's.
And just in my savage. :wink: Dont even think about using it on a weight to weight basis to BH209. About 38 weighed grains of imr4759 will get me 2100 fps out of my 50's with 250 gr. saboted SST's. Savage only recommends 43 gr. 4759 with a 45 gr. MAX load. 70 gr. weighed 4759 would be DANGEROUS. If a guy wants to shoot smokeless....you got to be careful.

Absolutely! Only use smokeless powder in guns rated for such, like the Savage and the SMI smokeless muzzleloaders!!! :!:[/quote]

And dont eat the apples from this here tree neither!! :lol:

 

[globemountain]

Well....I'm at the point of buying powder. Locally I can't get BH-209. I have to order it online and pay the HazMat fee. I did find it for $26.99 per jug. The price of T7 has increased at my local dealer (ML season is near). So I did the math with all things considered, including cleaning patches to swab between shots. BH-209 is 14 cents per shot more than T7. That being the case, I ordered 4 jugs. I'll probably be hooked at that point...... Oh well, so much for me trying to get by the cheap route.......lol

 

[coltchris]

I got hooked the same way! I will use nothing else unless something cheaper & better comes out. By the way, I'm about out and thinking of ordering a case. Anybody out there want to go in on a case? I'm located 26 miles N.E. of Traverse City, MI.

 

[globemountain]

Here is how the numbers worked out for me......actually only 11 cents difference. It's important to look at ALL costs, not just powder price. This is based on 100grs. per shot. 62 shots per jug of BH-209 and 99 shots per jug of T7. The cost of swabbing between shots and the higher cost of T7 primers doesn't sound like much initially but actually brings the price of Tripple 7 closer to the price of BH-209 when it's all said and done.

 

[vabowhntr]

You wouldn't book a 7 day, $10,000.00 elk hunt & go with 20.00 boots would ya?

That is exactly what I am doing this fall, but the boots were 19.95 on clearance :wink: .