BH209 first time

[Cordwood]

Went out this morning to test some BH209. I didn't have a whole lot of time so just tested a 100 gr weighted load, 200 gr shockwaves, w/ Fed 209A primer. I shot a group for comparison w/ my hunting load of T7 mag pellets, same bullet, and Rem Kleanbore primer. As expected, 3 touching at 100 yards. Cleaned the bore thoroughly then fired 6 rounds of BH209. Kick seemed comparable to the T7 pellets. Group was about 1.5" high compared to the T7 load. Group size was around 1.5". Okay, but nothing to brag about. I did swab between shots with dry patch. There did seem to be a very slight crud ring with BH209. I'll try 110 gr next time out. Going to be hard to beat the T7 magnum pellets if they continue to shoot like they do, at least in my PH.

ultratec00,

Please tell me you weren't shooting 100 grains BH209 by WEIGHT? If you were shooting 100 grains BH209 by WEIGHT, that would be like shooting 145 grains BH209 by VOLUME. You also mentioned shooting 110 grains next time out, I hope you meant VOLUME and not WEIGHT. 110 grains BH209 by WEIGHT would be the equivelant of 160 grains BH209 by VOLUME. :shock:

No wonder you had a crud ring!

120 grains BH209 by VOLUME is equivelant to 150 grains Black Powder/Pyrodex/3 pellets, that is also the highest recommended load from Western.

Just remember that 100 grains BH209 By VOLUME is equivelant to 70 grains BH209 by WEIGHT. If you want to figure out any load of BH209 take the VOLUME charge and multiply it by 0.70 (70%) for the WEIGHT equivelant.

Example: 110 grains VOLUME x 0.70 = 77 grains WEIGHT.

BE SAFE!

Thanks! ...I just learned something. I havent been safe. Ive been shooting 100gr weighed out on a digital scale. Your post opened my eyes to say the least! Im backing the loads down to 74gr.

 

[toddpipkin]

I guess my Omega just doesn't like the Barnes bullets. 3" groups at 100 yds., with any powder charge.

Truthfully, I don't much care for the Barnes combo, either. WAAAAAYYYYY too hard to load!!!! I don't think it would be possible from any of my tree stands.

I think I like the Barnes bullet, but the sabot that it comes in is WAY too tight in my bore.

Any suggestions on aftermarket sabots to try?

 

[BIGT]

Cordwood,
What gun and bullet and how was the recoil?

 

[toddpipkin]

I just saw on the Barnes web site that they are recalling these bullets due to being shipped with incorrect sabots. The front (bullet-holding) end is too long, causing accuracy problems. That doesn't help the hard loading, though.

On my way to the range now, to try the same load and bullets, but in T-C Super Glide (2-petal) sabots.

 

[toddpipkin]

WILD shots after cleaning

After my last range session, I cleaned the Omega with Hoppes #9 as suggested by Western Powders. After cleaning, I wiped the bore with tight-fitting patches, three times. Then once more with a double patch - REAL tight, to ensure that the bore was dry.

Next visit to the range, my first four shots (84 gr. by weight of Blackhorn 209, 250 Barnes T-SF, in T-C Super-Glide sabots) scattered wildly. Then the next four made a 1.4" group, dead center.

I certainly can't fire four rounds before each hunt to get my rifle settled in and ready.

I have heard of some shooters swabbing the bore with alcohol before loading. Does this really help dry the bore so the first shot goes where it should?

Any other suggestions?

 

[g.g.]

Re: WILD shots after cleaning

After my last range session, I cleaned the Omega with Hoppes #9 as suggested by Western Powders. After cleaning, I wiped the bore with tight-fitting patches, three times. Then once more with a double patch - REAL tight, to ensure that the bore was dry.

Next visit to the range, my first four shots (84 gr. by weight of Blackhorn 209, 250 Barnes T-SF, in T-C Super-Glide sabots) scattered wildly. Then the next four made a 1.4" group, dead center.

I certainly can't fire four rounds before each hunt to get my rifle settled in and ready.

I have heard of some shooters swabbing the bore with alcohol before loading. Does this really help dry the bore so the first shot goes where it should?

Any other suggestions?

fire a couple-3 primers before loading the gun on the clean barrel and I will almost guarantee that your pattern will start out great.

I have to do that very thing.

 

[Charlie-NY]

BlackHorn is non-corrosive. Why not just leave the bore with the fouling from the range session before? You could leave it that way for the entire hunting season.

 

[toddpipkin]

It seems illogical to me that firing 2-3 primers, before loading, could possibly have the same drying effect on the barrel as four of those same primers, igniting 336 grains of powder. (four loads at 84 gr./load).

But we are, after all, talking about the wierd, strange, black magic and alchemy of firearms and shooting. So I'll try it, of course! :yeah:

 

[toddpipkin]

I tried leaving the bore fouled after my very first trip to the range. After four days in this Alabama Gulf Coast salt air and humidity, I could see a thin brown film at the muzzle. It may have been only oxidation of the fouling itself, but it certainly looked like rust! Even if not, it was enough to scare me away from trying that again!!!

 

[g.g.]

It seems illogical to me that firing 2-3 primers, before loading, could possibly have the same drying effect on the barrel as four of those same primers, igniting 336 grains of powder. (four loads at 84 gr./load).

But we are, after all, talking about the wierd, strange, black magic and alchemy of firearms and shooting. So I'll try it, of course! :yeah:

todd your right that the fouling will not be the exact same, however it is much better than a fully clean barrel

 

[Cordwood]

Cordwood,
What gun and bullet and how was the recoil?

The gun is an encore pro hunter shooting a 250gr. shockwave. The recoil was kinda brutal. Way too much powder! ...and I guess that may have caused my hang-fire problem.

I lightened the load to 110gr volume and it made a huge difference in both recoil and accuracy. ...and no more hang-fires to date. Im feeling very confident with that load. Ive taken a nice buck...only a 20yd shot though. And im really looking forward to the next time I go to take some 100yd+ practice shots.

Its scary I was overloading the powder by so much. It was over by about 25gr weighed. Tell your friends! I told mine what I was doing wrong and they also didnt know there was a difference between volume and weighed. Its kinda messed up...everybody I know figures 100gr = 100gr. Nope! :shock:

 

[toddpipkin]

Range session yesterday was very disappointing!! Shots scattered everywhere!

Expected the first few to be off, but the Omega never settled in to shoot a decent group. All were 6 to 8 inches at 100 yds. And ML deer season opens Monday!!

Nosler is sending me new sabots, but I think I'm going to give up on the boat-tailed Tipped Spit-Fires, and go to a flat-based bullet. Anyone tried the Nosler E-Z's yet? Or should I try the T-C Shockwaves?

I think I'm going to try a little less powder, too. And measure by volume rather than weight. Seems like 110 by volume is a pretty common load for BH-209 and 250 gr. bullets. And it's WAY too much of a hassle having to close myself up in the camper shell of my truck, to keep the scale out of the wind while at the range.

Youth deer season is this weekend, and I'll be taking my son.

Any other suggestions that I can try in a quick, short mid-day range session on Saturday, between hunts?

 

[g.g.]

100 gr volume of bh209 is more accurate in my encore than 110...both with sw 250's.

try that and see what happens. without your gun in hand its impossible to help much more though

good luck on monday!

 

[toddpipkin]

FINALLY!!

Finally found the load my Omega likes!

100 gr. by VOLUME of Blackhorn 209, 250 gr. T-C Shockwave ( the non-bonded version - yellow tip and black sabot ), sparked by a Winchester 209 shotgun (not ML) primer.

7 shots inside 2 inches.

Cleaned the gun, snapped two caps, then fired 5 more. First was about 2" high right, second about 1.5" low left, then the next three snuggled together like a litter of puppies on a cold morning, 1", dead center.

Left the bore fouled this time.

I tried 27 different load-bullet-sabot combinations before hitting the right one. I have learned several things in getting to this point-

1. At the velocities attained with a muzzleloader, monometal bullets such as the Barnes, and bonded bullets such as the blue-tipped T-C Shockwaves aren't really needed. And the premium bullets didn't shoot nearly as well, at least in my gun. The plain old cup-and-core bullets shot best, and should be quite tough enough to get the job done at 1900 f.p.s.

2. More is not always better. Reducing the powder charge greatly increased accuracy. And, according to Blackhorn, cost very little in lost velocity.

3. Blackhorn 209 is DA BOMB!!! No rotten-egg stink, super-accurate, compared to other BP subs I have used, and EASY clean-up. What more could you ask for?

4. The brown residue in the bore after leaving it fouled from shooting BH209 DEFINITELY IS NOT RUST. I left it in for two weeks, in the wet, salty air of the Gulf Coast. It wiped out easily, and my bore is still as mirror-shiny as the day it left the factory.

 

[coltchris]

Barnes shockwave?

 

[toddpipkin]

Oops!! Corrected.

Thanks, coltchris

 

[lefteye]

My Triumph shoots 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups with a 250 Shockwave, superglide sabot and 110 grains Blackhorn, and a Winchester 209 shotgun primer.

 

[bubba]

I am like you but I though the max of T7 was 120 grains but many here don't recommend using that much for the best performance from a Muzzleloader. They say that it is 90 to 110 grains of Pyrodex and about 100 or so of T7. You might get better groups with less, more does not always mean better with powder in a ML and sounds like you are trying to get more distance shots.

Hope you get it figured out. Sorry I don't do math that good either.

LFM

that nikon is based upon PYRODEX, NOT T7, nobody recommends 150gr of T7, including the manufacturer !