Knight Bighorn (Updated w/ perc. cap report

[kevinbrian]

Starting with a shiny clean and dry bore. Triple Seven powder (ffg) and triple seven primer in the red jacket. Harvester short black and 250 xtp. Set target up at 50 measured yards. With factory sights, shot this:

I wet/dry swabbed between evry shot. On the fourth shot and there-after, the backpressure would blow the red jacket off of the plug. In fact, on shot number 4, my left eye recieved a fair sized blast of, I'm assuming, primer gases. It freaked me out. I swabbed barrel and reloaded. Happened again. On the 7th shot, I left the primered red jacket in the gun and took picture. I'm not sure I like this.....at all. Especially the eyeful of gas. I wore my sunshades for the next few shots. Anyway, I had this gun up for sale on the classifieds and am hereby withdrawing it until a satisfactory resolution can come about. I couldn't/wouldn't sell this ML knowing that the striker blows back. I guess I could use the no 11 caps. It's depressing because this ML shotts so darn good!!!!!!!

 

[Lee 9]

I sure would check the breach plug may well be past time to get a new one they do burn a little metal off each time you shoot. You did not say how much powder, should stay under 120 gr of 777.

 

[sabotloader]

kevinbrian

The big question, how much powder? and how did you measure it?

The other idea suggested... what shape is the breech plug?

And it is possible that the hammer spring might be weak...

Shooting a #11 might be even a bigger problem as the cap may go to pieces...

From your description of patching it sounds like you were doing the right thing...

 

[kevinbrian]

I was using 100 grains of triple seven (volumetric ). The gun is new. This is only my third or fourth time out with it. This breech plug MAY have a grand total of 25 shots on it....if that. The flash hole still measures the same as it did before the first shot was fired thru it using torch tip cleaner as measuring device. I should have mentioned all this in my first post, but was in a hurry to go outside and clean the Bighorn up. I'll use the breech plug with the no 11 nipple on it tomorrow and see if I can maintain accuracy. If so, I'll just use caps from now on. It sure is a good shooter.

 

[sabotloader]

kevinbrian

I would still check it out with Knight - It should not be pushing back like that... especially with just a 100 grains of T7...

 

[kevinbrian]

kevinbrian

I would still check it out with Knight - It should not be pushing back like that... especially with just a 100 grains of T7...

I feel the same way. And thanks for the replies. I don't think I'll even try the No 11 caps until I contact Knight and explain the situation.
This gun is a pleasure to shoot, and is proving to have a good, true shooting barrel. I wish that my Thompson Omega had a synthetic stock as durable-feeling as this Bighorn stock. Not to take anything away from the Omega....that sucker will shoot as well. I guess I'll have an afternoon session with it tomorrow.

 

[Nimrodder]

kevenbrian, my knight wolverine 2 did the same thing with the 209 primers. It even recocked the gun on several occassions. I was shooting only 65 grains of 3F BP and a 460gr NE conical. I put a #11 breech plug and hammer from a Mk-85 and never had further problems with the gun. Mine was very accurate too. In my opinion the Knight plunger guns are best left with #11 plugs as the blowback is unreal and can be dangerous to your eyesight. I got showered with blowback debris everytime I pulled the trigger when using the 209 primers.

 

[kevinbrian]

Seems like I've read about this before somewhere. The striker on my Bighorn has the little pointed outcropping of metal (for lack of a better descriptive term) inside the face for denting the 209 primers. It's intended to work w/ no 11 caps and musket caps as well, and it does work cause I used no 11 caps in it three weeks ago. But the pointed striker face does a number on the cap! I would prefer the flat faced striker for caps.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

yup

I had an American Knight that sandblasted my forehead every shot. Converted it to 11's and muskets, you will need a flat faced plunger from Knight for best results, and had no further problems. Not having to use the FPJ's makes shooting a bit more economical too.Plus , you dont have to worry about not having the jackets!

 

[kevinbrian]

Well a nice cold front moved thru during the night and the morning was nice and air-ish. Couldn't let this wonderful morning pass by without trying out the Bighorn with No 11 caps. On my first group I used the very same components that shot so good yesterday, except I used No 11 nipple (but I used No 10 remington caps which fit fine). First group:

With a percussion cap, this gun does not seem to like 100 grains of Triple seven. So I dropped down to 80 grains. Shot 4 times:

The above target was meant to be a five shot group, but I shot my fifth shot at the wrong bullseye. Then loaded up and shot 3 200 grain sst's with mmp ble sabot. They shot the very best of all:

All ignition was instant...no hangfires. I wet/dry swabbed after every shot. I'm beginning to think that I should have simply bought a Wolverine for less money since this will need to be a dedicated No 11 cap shooter instead of 209 FPJ shooter due to the striker. Besides, I can load the caps quicker and can shake them out after firing. I'll try some Swiss powder FFFg the next time out. Thanks for everyones replies. Thanks for reading. Kevin

 

[kevinbrian]

Don't know how it happened but I double posted.

 

[Busta]

Don't know how it happened but I double posted.

Trigger happy! You double-tapped the clicker. :lol:

That is some mighty fine shooting there. IMHO the plunger guns, not just Knights either, are better off left to the #11 caps.

I had my TK200 turkey shotgun loaded to the max before, could feel the blast on the face using the 209 FPJ's. Went back to the #11 striker and breech plug. Actually it sits in my safe, I use my White Thunder with #11 caps instead.

 

[sabotloader]

Busta

There might be some exceptions to the general rule on that also. All I ever shot in my White U-Mag is 209's they work very well.

Even the Remington 700ml and a lot of other bolt type actions are really plunger guns (falling hammer) with a bolt handle and can use the 209's very effectively. A lot of people think because it has a bolt handle that is a true bolt action and course in most cases that is not true they are truly nothing more than a plunger and can be re-cocked with blow back from the nipple.

 

[pwbrasky]

kevinbrian, I've also experienced blowback using Win. #209 primers and both Pyro. RS and Goex FFg (80grs.) in my Knight Bighorn with a 370gr. T/C Maxi-Ball. When I switched to #11 percussion caps, the problem pretty much went away. What also seems to work is wrapping the breech plug with teflon tape (2 wraps), but it is a PITA to get the tape out of the threads when you remove the plug to clean it.

 

[sabotloader]

pwbrasky

breech plug with teflon tape (2 wraps), but it is a PITA to get the tape out of the threads when you remove the plug to clean it.

There is a tool that I use for that project...


Nylon In-Line Breech Thread Brush
Nylon breech thread cleaning brush. Great for cleaning breech plug thread area without damage to the threads. Two per package.

Find it here close to the bottom of the page...

http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm

An oversized bore brush will do about the same thing...

 

[pwbrasky]

sabotloader, Thanks for the tip about the nylon brush!

 

[cayuga]

I picked up a bunch of them nylon brushes at Wal Mart end of season sale. The big one does the threads in the rifle and the small one does the smaller holes if the rifle shoots a #11 nipple. They work real good. Get them wet with solvent or cleaner and push them in then turn them clockwise and all the tape comes out of the brush.

 

[flounder]

I have never used anything but the #11 caps in my wolverine or MK-85. I am wondering if those red primer carriers had been used a few times and if that could be part of it. Did you have the same problem on the first couple of times you shot that bighorn?
Art

 

[kevinbrian]

I have never used anything but the #11 caps in my wolverine or MK-85. I am wondering if those red primer carriers had been used a few times and if that could be part of it. Did you have the same problem on the first couple of times you shot that bighorn?
Art

Yes it actually did it the first time that I used the red jacketed primers. I'm only using brand new fpj's. I was saving them for re-using but I'm sure that using used ones would not be good as the new ones can't be trusted to stay on the breech plug using 100 gr of triple seven FFg.
The next time that I buy a muzzleloader, I will DEFINITELY research it and NOT be lured into buying it due to affordability . Now I have a Knight Bighorn that will only work properly with the breech plug that uses No 11 caps or musket caps. And I would be forced to disclose this should I ever decide to re-sell it! And that will probably turn people off from buying it. But there is an upside: It will drive tacks with 80 gr of Triple 7 and 200 sst's.

 

[sabotloader]

kevinbrian

Still think I would call Knight and discuss it with them - you just never know...