KRB & Blackhorn

[funman]

Do you think Knight will ever make a breech plug for the KRB to shoot BH 209? I really like the way this rifle looks and functions but do not want to go back to the other powders.

 

[lane]

The Modifier part of me would love to take a crack at one of those breech plugs :wink: 8)

I might buy one and test it with my Buddie's new KRB

Yup, new project, here I come!

 

[funman]

Lane is my last name are we related? I hope you do that project i would buy one of your proto types.

 

[wildhobbybobby]

I goofed around with this last summer:

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9006

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9130

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9205

The only sure cure for hangfires so far is a "duplex" load with a pinch of blackpowder or pyrodex under the charge of BH209.

If I had to guess I would say that Knight has given up on making the KRB work with BH209. I don't think the primer is held in the breech tight enough for reliable ignition and I think the flame channel is probably too long on the KRB breech plug.

I would love to be proven wrong by Knight, as my KRB is the most accurate ML rifle I have ever owned.

 

[lane]

I goofed around with this last summer:

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9006

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9130

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... php?t=9205

The only sure cure for hangfires so far is a "duplex" load with a pinch of blackpowder or pyrodex under the charge of BH209.

If I had to guess I would say that Knight has given up on making the KRB work with BH209. I don't think the primer is held in the breech tight enough for reliable ignition and I think the flame channel is probably too long on the KRB breech plug.

I would love to be proven wrong by Knight, as my KRB is the most accurate ML rifle I have ever owned.

Excellent progression of trouble shooting Bobby! Now is that the Only style of plug that the KRB uses? Or can it also use the FPJ style?

 

[wildhobbybobby]

There is only one KRB breech plug available and it uses loose 209 primers. There is no FPJ plug for it.

 

[jsteurrys]

What is the flame channel diameter? Is it stepped like the DISC "Domed" FPJ? Which Primers are you using? I am looking to compare it to what has worked in the DISC family of rifles with BH 209.

 

[lane]

What is the flame channel diameter? Is it stepped like the DISC "Domed" FPJ? Which Primers are you using? I am looking to compare it to what has worked in the DISC family of rifles with BH 209.

Same Here!

I'm thinking of doing my same drilling process, as with the domed plug mod.
From what Bobby has said, I think we should also work on the primer-to-nipple gap, that seems to be a point of some extra blow-back.

I was thinking about shimming the plug with some very thin washers. If you've ever changed out some disc brakes, you may remember the copper washers that are used to seal the brake hoses. These washers compress as they are torqued down, and seal the line.
If we can get some set of washers that will mate perfectly with the sealing ring of the plug face...we may be in business 8)

What do you think?
.

 

[Busta]

Lane,

If you are going to use a shim/washer DO NOT use copper. I have talked to a guy that did that with Blackhorn 209 and the copper migrated outward locking the washer into the breech ahead of the threads. He said that it was VERY hard to get it back out without ruining the threads in the breech. I forget exactly how many shots it took to do this, but I remember it wasn't many. He did say if you want to do that to use something that is very hard that won't swell up. Maybe something in stainless would work, if you could find something.

The problem I have heard of with the KRB breech block is exactly what you are discussing. Will not lock up solid enough and stay put to hold the primer tight. Even if they come up with a breech plug fix, I doubt all the blocks are going to lock up exactly the same.

If you are duplexing with a corrosive powder, you are defeating the purpose of BH209 IMO, other than it is very accurate. The Black Mag'3 would be my first choice for a booster, it has a very low flash point (almost as low as black) and I believe it to be non-corrosive as well. This (BM'3) may be a good powder to try in the KRB. I used it several years ago, but availability was poor. Supposedly it is being marketed again, but I haven't seen any new stuff on the shelves yet. I imagine most retailers are going to be gun-shy.

 

[Lee 9]

Lane , if you get thse Knights to shoot BH it will get even harder to get. They work good with 777 and a lot of them like it, I think 777 is just the thig for them. :lol: :lol: :lol: Lee
PS it does give lower reddings on my Texas instrument than 777.

 

[lane]

Lane,

If you are going to use a shim/washer DO NOT use copper. I have talked to a guy that did that with Blackhorn 209 and the copper migrated outward locking the washer into the breech ahead of the threads. He said that it was VERY hard to get it back out without ruining the threads in the breech.

Yes, Stainless shim/washers would be the ticket 8)
Now, I have been searching for the KRB plug on-line, and can't seem to locate one. Even the Knight web site doesn't seem to list it :? Anybody know a dealer that has it? I'll keep looking.

 

[wildhobbybobby]

Regarding duplex loads, it appeared to me that the BH209 charge consumed whatever blackpowder fouling there was from the 5 grain "booster" charge, because I was able to fire 20 shots or more with no swabbing, easy loading and excellent accuracy. Also, the rifle cleaned up fine using only Hoppe's Number 9.

Pyrodex is extremely corrosive in my experience, but blackpowder is not. It will attract moisture and rust will form, but it does not seem to eat the metal anywhere near as quickly as Pyrodex does.

I would feel pretty confident using a blackpowder duplex load for hunting in anything near normal conditions. I wouldn't want to leave the rifle for weeks without cleaning it, but I don't do that with my smokeless firearms either.

Also, you can get the KRB breech plug from Knight, even though it is not listed on the website. I got one a month ago, ordered on the phone. I did have to explain exactly what I was looking for, though.

 

[jsteurrys]

Lane,

Are you looking to use the washer to "Headspace" the Primer to reduce the stackup thereby holding the Primer tightly in place in the pocket? The SS washer would be the best choice and you could even turn a step on the OD of the Breechplug for the shim to fit over so that way the shim could have some thickness to it. I believe this would work fine as I have been thinking about doing the same with my DISC to hold the FPJ in place better. Let me know if this is what you are thinking about trying.

 

[lane]

Also, you can get the KRB breech plug from Knight, even though it is not listed on the website. I got one a month ago, ordered on the phone. I did have to explain exactly what I was looking for, though.

Sent them an email yesterday :wink:

Are you looking to use the washer to "Headspace" the Primer to reduce the stackup thereby holding the Primer tightly in place in the pocket? The SS washer would be the best choice and you could even turn a step on the OD of the Breechplug for the shim to fit over so that way the shim could have some thickness to it. I believe this would work fine as I have been thinking about doing the same with my DISC to hold the FPJ in place better. Let me know if this is what you are thinking about trying.

Yup! And the thickness of the washer was a concern, till you mentioned turning/lathing the breech plug face 8)

Thanks!

 

[lane]

Breech Plug is on the way 8)

Got this reply from Knight Customer Service:
The part number for the KRB non jacketed breech is 000614 ($14.99). This is the only gun this breech fits. You can order this particular plug from us via telephone at 256.260.8950. It is not a packaged part so that is why it is not available on the web. Let me know if I can assist you further with this.

 

[jsteurrys]

Lane,

Let me know what the flame channel diameter is and is the stepped.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem with hang fire from the Blackhorn 209, is too slow to ignite because it's too synthetic a powder.You must fing more powerfull primer,and or thighter bullet/sabot combo.
Instead of hunters having to work a solution and spend money ,BH209 co. should work on their product to ignite faster.
Taureau noir

 

[Night]

I have been following along on this thread with interest because I have a KRB as well.I also have the shadow I was cleaning the Shadow up and thought the KRB BP and the Shadow BP look very similar.The first thing I noticed was the 209 primer on the shadow is held in place by a magnet at the base of the primer pocket and it really holds it in there tight.The shadow plug is .100" longer than the KRB and the flame channel is .122 on the shadow and .166 on the KRB.I tried the Shadow bp in the KRB but the .100" extra in length will not allow the action to lock up.The exterior of the two plugs are the same both have the convex face and the same size exit hole.This info maybe totally useless but it give me something to do tonight Night

 

[lane]

I have been following along on this thread with interest because I have a KRB as well.I also have the shadow I was cleaning the Shadow up and thought the KRB BP and the Shadow BP look very similar.The first thing I noticed was the 209 primer on the shadow is held in place by a magnet at the base of the primer pocket and it really holds it in there tight.The shadow plug is .100" longer than the KRB and the flame channel is .122 on the shadow and .166 on the KRB.I tried the Shadow bp in the KRB but the .100" extra in length will not allow the action to lock up.The exterior of the two plugs are the same both have the convex face and the same size exit hole.This info maybe totally useless but it give me something to do tonight Night

Thanks Night! Doesn't give us much room to work with now, does it :?: Still worth a go 8)

 

[Underclocked]

I've forgotten... is the KRB plug magnetized?