Scope or Trigger pull?

[cayuga]

I have noticed with almost every rifle I shoot, that the further back from the target I get, the more to the left I seem to hit. And this is with almost any rifle. So today I wanted to see if it was me or the rifles.

I used my White Bison because it has a 4x Simmons Pro Diamond scope, is very accurate, easy to load, and normally very accurate. I used the standard load for it of 70 grains of Triple Seven 2f and a Bull Shop .5045 that I sized down to a .503. It just loads nice in this Bison.

At 25 yards I shot my first target. Here I expect a hole with this rifle.

I shot the top target first, made a three click adjustment and then shot the bottom three. Now I figured I was on pretty good to the bull. So I swabbed the barrel and moved the target back to 50 yards.

Even though I was aiming for the white head of that turkey picture, note.. the bullet holes have moved to the left. So I swabbed the barrel again, and moved the target back.

I could only get back to 72 yards because somehow a tree was shot off, and laying across the trail. These muzzleloaders might have a little power after all.

Here I note that the POI is moving even further to the left. The group has opened a little but I expect that. I suspect it is now trigger pull on my part.

Here I made an adjustment. I placed only the very tip of my finger on the trigger and basically let it surprise me when it went off. While the group moved back to the right, I have to admit I did not enjoy the trigger this way when I fired.

So my question is.. what kind of trigger/finger is correct? Are you supposed to get a lot of meat on the trigger? How do you do it? Also I suspect it is my trigger control. What do you think?

 

[Underclocked]

My trigger finger contacts the trigger about midway between the very tip and the first joint.

Move out to 150 (break out the chain saw :wink: ) and see if there is more significant impact shift or tightness of group using one method or the other.

 

[cayuga]

I keep shooting that White and it will cut its own path. That Balsam that went down was over 10 inches on the stump. I figured it was safe. Must have been the wind we had the other day.

Well that finger placement makes a lot of sence. I had caught myself making a mistake and the groups showed it. I just have to be more careful when I address the rifle in the future. Thanks...

 

[knightfan]

interesting

Thats very interesting. I am pretty sure I might do that also. :shock:

I am going to have to do some testing

 

[Mark whiz]

Target shooters always talk about only using the tip of the finger............and with the sensitive trigers they use I could see that. For for more "standard" type of shooting, I usually use my 1st knuckle joint on the trigger. I got long fingers anyway and that just feels comfortable.

I did some testing with dry firing pistols and found that when using the fingertip, I could literally see the pistol being pulled to the right as I eased down the trigger - going down to that 1st knuckle eliminated that problem. Try some slow dry fire practice and watch what the barrel is doing while you squeeze or have someone watch it from behind you.

 

[heiner39]

I have a little chart that shows various reasons for misses. For a right handed shooter with shots going to the left a possibility could be "too little trigger finger". If it was high and left then a possibility could be "pushing or anticipating recoil or no follow through". If it was low and left then a possiblility could be "tightening fingers or jerking/slapping at the trigger".

I know these are the end all answers to shooting issues but they are things to take in to consideration. It's a handy little pie chart that shows possible solutions at each piece of the pie that coincides with misses.

 

[frontier gander]

My Accura when it has a scope does the same darn thing. @ 100 yards it shoots to the right. I do one click over and it does the exact same thing only on the other side. Who knows!

 

[fliowa]

What system do you use to mount your scopes onto your rifles?

 

[cayuga]

All my scopes are on quick release mounts. So far the mounts have been holding up real good. I have got some good suggestions on trigger pulls and where the finger should be. So I have some testing to do. Although even the way it shot today, I shoot at a deer any day around here. Most shots are 50 yards or less.

 

[DPH]

I have not noticed this problem with a muzzle loader. I have noticed that high powered center fire rifles seem to drift to the RIGHT at long ranges. I always attributed this to the fact that the bullet is spinning with a right hand spin due to the rifling being right hand.

 

[mcrik]

NRA instruction says: "pull trigger straight to the rear" ......easier said than done. but it seems to be a slightly canted scope or rifle to me.


mcrik

 

[wayles]

trigger

Cayuga, I agree with Mcrik. Level the X hairs to the bore. Farther out you get the more it goes left, Or stop canting it. As far as trigger finger goes try getting deeper in the trigger on the less sensitive part of the finger. It will be more of a supprise and easier to pull if its a hard trigger. Gives the same effect as a lighter trigger as your finger is stronger higher up. Works really well for supprise archery realease aid also. Pretty good shootin just as it is for a 4 power. A higher power would help on the longer distance and would really let you know whats going on. Bad eye guys like me use 4.5 to 14 powers. At the range it never leaves 14
Best regards and good shootin
Wayles

 

[cayuga]

One thing in my defence that wayles just brought to mind. I was not canted, but the target was. When I held the cross hairs level on the bull circle, the target leaned down slightly to the left... hm-mm

Might this have an effect? The ground is uneven back that, and I use a free moving/standing target stand. So if I am on an incline, so is the target. Something else to consider in this formula.

I do think I was wrong with the trigger/finger position. I am going to pay a lot more attention to that. But when I use that very middle of the first joint, when that rifle goes off, it is a surprise. So I just have to sit through all that I guess. The only good thing was the White Rifle preformed perfect with them CCI Magnum caps.

 

[kyelkhunter3006]

Sounds like you might be milking the trigger to me. I never even heard of this until I had a pistol that I just COULD NOT hit with. The gun grouped great, functioned 100%, but I'll be darned if I didn't hit extremely low and the left with it. I had a pistol instructor tell that I was too worried about "squeezing" (with my hand) the trigger instead of just pulling it straight back. Since I was squeezing, I was torqing my hand the left and down a bit. I worked on the technique and my handgunning improved immediately. I am right handed, and that's why I was pulling to the left and down. He told me that if I was left-handed, I'd pull to the right and down.

I'm not sure if it could really be applied to a rifle, since the stock is in contact with your shoulder, but if you aren't holding onto the forend while shooting, I can see where the stock would cant a bit a to the left if you're right handed and trying to "squeeze" instead of pulling straight back. I've read a lot of shooting articles that talk about squeezing the grip of the rifle with the whole hand instead of just using your finger to pull the trigger. I shoot a whole lot better just using my finger to pull straight back on the trigger. I also place the trigger in the middle of the first pad of my finger.

 

[Bucker]

the hold

was torqing my hand the left and down a bit. That is exactly what I thought. I do the exact same. I can pout them in the same hole using that method. some reason right before or during my squezze off I torque.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

canted targets

Cayuga,
If your targets verticle line is canted and you line the scope on it it will throw your shot off.I think that may be a reason most targets are round.A quick and easy way to make sure your verticle line is verticle is to use a piece of string and a nut or sinker.Stick it to the backstop with a tack and line the target verticle line up on it.Gravity will pull it to true verticle.