Weighing charges = eye opener

[CarlV]

I decided to weigh some charges of BH209 tonight. Now, I've been reloading precision rifle and pistol shells for over 30 years now (Oh MY~!) so I know my way around my reloading bench.

I used the 70 gr by weight = 100 gr by volumn conversion.

110 gr by vol = 77 gr by weight
120 gr by vol = 84 gr by weight

I set up the RCBS balance beam scale and proceded to measure some 110 gr charges by vol and weigh them. Holy Cow! I couldn't believe how inconsistant they were. Some of them 10-12 kernals light and some the same amount heavy. I was using this TC measure and being as careful and consistant as I could.

I weighed out 10 charges into Lanes tubes

Then I weighed out 10 charges for 120 grains by vol (84 gr by weight) into BH tubes

Notice that the BH tubes are graduated but all 10 of them indicated 110 gr when I know there's 120 grains in them. I'll have to e-mail BH about that.

Now I wonder how I've been shooting my ML as well as I have all these years. Perhaps black powder and its substitutes simply aren't all that critical for small differances in powder???

Oh yeah, I really like my new hat

 

[old/new]

Oh yeah, I really like my new hat


Where d'ya get it?

 

[CarlV]

Oh yeah, I really like my new hat


Where d'ya get it?

Pre-production model

 

[big6x6]

There are a LOT of issues where volumetric measuing is concerned.

Where did 100gr come from?
Originally...a 100gr volumetric muzzleloading powder measure was to measure 100gr BY WEIGHT of ffg blackpowder VOLUMETRICALLY. So the measuring STANDARD we are currently using is 100gr of blackpowder. For the muzzleloading aficionado I've exposed several issues even NOW. Which ffg BLACKPOWDER? Goex, Swiss, Elephant, Wano, Schuetzen, et al? Also...Did they "tap" the measuring device while measuring? So the EXACTNESS of a 100gr volumetric measure is questionable from the beginning.....SOOOO

Being the enterprising individual that I am I QUICKLY grabbed up the first six DIFFERENT powder measures(including the Blackhorn 209 vial) I could get my hands on here around the house. I have a couple more but went with what I had... I set EACH measure to 100gr and using Swiss ffg blackpowder weighed five charges from each measure and averaged. Guess what? NONE of them measured 100gr BY WEIGHT!

As you can see the high was the BH209 vial with the low a CVA brass measure. 13gr difference between the high and low. So it is obvious from the start that no-one can agree what the measurement of 100gr of blackpowder actually IS.


100gr EQUIVALENT
Now throw in the blackpowder SUBSTITUTES and we have another issue. We NOW have powders that are measured using the blackpowder standard volumetric powder measure that DON'T weigh 100grs when the measure is set to 100gr! And don't forget 100grs of Pyrodex and Triple Se7en of pellets!


BACK TO BLACKHORN 209
Of course I discovered that the Blackhorn 209 vial measurements were VERY generous when I first got them. I consider this an ASSET! 8) I weighed both 110gr and 120gr using the volumetric scale on the BH209 vials which came to 78gr and 86gr by weight. If Western Powders wants to tell me 120gr by volume of BH209 should weigh 86grs...then I BELIEVE them! I'll take a little extra velocity any day while staying within Western Powders loading data! 8) IMO...BH209 should be WEIGHED anyway....

 

[CarlV]

Thanks Chuck, Your post was enlightening. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the BH vials were off by quite a bit. Oh well, I won't use them for measuring the powder anyways.

 

[lane]

Thanks Chuck!

Great Demo

 

[flint head]

:huh?:
:drinkers:

 

[Pappy]

Going along with Chuck, this is why it's hard to tell another person what amount to load in a given rifle. If you use different powder or powder measurers, the loads will be different. That is why everyone needs to start low and build to match their own rifle.

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

Weights are not quite as bad, but even there you'll see variations.

100 grains by volume needs to be a FIXED amount of volume - 6ml or something appropriate.

Maybe Chuck should decide which of those measures is "accurate", measure the water volume at the 100 grain mark, then write a nasty letter to ALL of the makers.

The folks at Blackhorn probably just want you to burn more powder.

 

[sabotloader]

big6x6

Thank you Chuck another great piece of homework completed for us ML users....

I have eliminated all my volume measure now except for one kind. I use it as my standard. I think using one know instrument to throw volumes by is an advantage, and I have weighed enough loads form those to no that it throws light - but it is consistenly light with each different powder.

I do weigh BH, but only because of expense - I do not want to waste any of it so everything is caught - even down to using a trickle charger for that very last granual or two. But even then when I run out of measured charges at the range and have to resort to volume - I know my volume charge is going to be 1.2 to 1.4 grains by weight light but it really does not effect POI @ 100, part of that being I am not good enough to stack impact on top of impact.

 

[Okie Hog]

Tried weighing my charges for awhile and it was not worth it. Accuracy was already pretty good and with weighed charges it improved little if any. I use the TC adjustable brass powder measure. The powder is poured into the measure and then struck off level with my finger without tamping.

 

[NimrodRx]

What Flint Head "said."

Amen.

 

[jefo1]

67 grain weight measured on the RCBS 5-0-5,..showed roughly 92gr volume in the BH209 tubes. Showed dead nuts 100gr volume in the Thompson Center U-View. Neither of which is a big deal as long as ya know what is what with your stuff. When I know it's gonna be an "extended" day at the range..I "C" clamp a cheapy Lee poweder measure on the bench that I preset at home & just refill my tubes as needed,...make sure ya tap the cylinder a couple times at both ranges of the charge cycle & damn near perfect everytime. Probably the best 20.00 I've spent in a long time.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=540522

 

[frontier gander]

i dont think i gained much * if any* in the accuracy department by weighing my charges. What i did gain though, was consistentcy. Its good to know that everything has the same #'s. This way if i miss, i know its my fault.

 

[Lee 9]

A lot of us have played around with this at one time or another, I for one have come to the conclusion that it does not make much difference to my group sizes. When I did my testing with the new Blackhorn there was more variation with the Uview than with the scale or the reloading powder measure but if they both shoot a minute of angle who cares?
The one measure I tried that was inconsistent enough to make a difference in group size was the old open top brass measure.
I suspect the variation from person to person in the way we use them is bigger than the difference in measures.
I use the reloading measure and Lanes tubes when I am going to shoot a lot of shot because it is very convenient.