NEED A LITTLE HELP ( UPDATED 6-8-09 )

[LeadHead]

here YOU GO

I have a .45cal Knight Disc Elite and have been shooting 200gr SST and 200gr Shockwaves with the supplied sabots and 95 - 110 gr 777 2fg & 3fg but can't seem to hold a better pattern than 2" - 2.5" @ 100 yds :evil: will the lite Blue sabots from harvester be any better with these bullets ? I have read that with ea. of these bullets if you go above 100 gr of powder they tend to blow apart in game with no exit holes ! BUT I amnot as much worried about the exit wounds as I am the Accuracy right now , this gun should be shooting 1" or better @ 100 yds Any HELP WOULD BE GREATFUL !
Thanks in advance

My set up is
.45cal Disc Elite
26" 1:30 SS barrle
Back Synthetic stock
Weaver Steel Bases & Rings
3X9X40 Swift Scope

I have checked all screws they are good and tight , Barrle is not touching stock any were , everything seems in good shape but like I said 2" - 2.5 " is the best I can get right now :evil: HELP HELP HELP

 

[sabotloader]

LeadHead

I am pretty sure that rifle is capable of tighter groups than that. Trouble is there are so many little things both mechanically and externally that can cause minor accuracy problems....

I have read that with ea. of these bullets if you go above 100 gr of powder they tend to blow apart in game with no exit holes !

Well, I do not know about that... I have not read to much about them 'blowing up' - the bigger complaint has always been pencilling their way through an animal. I do not shoot the SST/SW type bullets so I really have no first hand information - I am old foggy and still shoot non-pointy bullets + 200 yards is my personal max range that I might shoot.

Back to accuracy... Reading your description my first thoughts were 'stock' problems. I am wondering if the might be rubbing on the barrel someplace - have you slid the dollar bill down the stock under the barrel? The next thing assuming that you are shooting from a bench using a front rest... make sure the rest is in the same place shot to shot and preferably more to the rear of the forearm than on the front.

Do you index your sabot when you install it in the bore? Just me and I know it sounds a bit out-of-reach but I aways place the sabot in the muzzle with a petal directly under where the front sight might be.

Another thought... sabots are they to loose - they really do not have to be so tight that you have to drive it down but the need to be snug...

Just sharing some thoughts....

 

[rt_con]

LeadHead: I recently purchased a NIB .45 Elite, but have only been to the range once so far. That said, it shot 1" groups with the only 2 bullets I tried with 85grs of BH209:

1. Barnes 195gr MZ Expanders with supplied sabot and also with the smooth blue Harvesters.

2. Hornady 200gr XTP (.400) with the smooth blue Harvesters.

Haven't tried the 200gr SST/SW, so I don't know what sabot comes with them. I would try them with the Harvesters above and the tan MMP's.

+1 to what sabotloader said about shooting in warm temps. My groups suck when the temps go over 70*... and I don't' have the patience to wait 5 mins between shots. I try to pick cloudy, cool, days for range testing.. or go early in the A.M. and quit by 10:00 A.M.

We have a few others here that have a lot of experience with the .45... I'm sure they will chime in on this thread.. Lane, Lemoyne, Spitpatch, Wayles, etc. It was their posts that inspired me to buy my .45

 

[Busta]

LeadHead,

Welcome to the forum. The very first thing I would look at is the crown, the first time I shot mine I had a hard time with groups. As a matter of fact I had a 350 grain bullet go through the target sideways. I did manage to get 1 group down to an inch but the others were 1-1/2" to 2-1/2" or so.

Here is what I found.

It was chilly and windy this afternoon, but I have been itching to shoot this rifle. I have had some concern about the crown on this rifle, it was not very well done, and I think I may have it recrowned. Ignition was perfect with all loads, but I ran into a small problem with my favorite primers using 125 grain loads.

I eyeball bore sighted it prior to shooting, it actually was only 2-1/4" to the right and 1-3/4" high with a light 80 grain load of Blackhorn 209. After that shot I moved it back 9 clicks to the left and decided to leave the elevation where it was. I then loaded 120 grains of Blackhorn 209 and the 200 grain SST and shot again. That load printed 4" high and 1/2" to the left. I then turned it down 12 clicks to hopefully move the impact down 3" to be 1" high.

Next I shot the group in the lower right of the target. 120 gr BH209, 200 gr SST's, Win W209 primers, for a first group of 2.29". I wasn't real happy with this group because I thought I held better than that.

The next group was in the top left of the target. 110 gr BH209, 200 gr SST's, Win W209 primers, this group measured a more respectable 1.62".

I was saving the lower left for some heavy lead, I wasn't sure if the 1:30 twist would stabilize these bullets, and the first shot answered that question, without a doubt. No, not with 80 grain of powder anyway. I was aiming at the lower left bull on the target and the bullet struck near the upper right bull, going sideways through the target. This made a near perfect profile of that bullet. 80 gr BH209, 350 gr White Power Star saboted bullet, Win W209 primer, terminated that experiment after one shot.

So after that, I decided to shoot one last group at the untouched lower left bull. My impact was 1" to 2" high where I like it, but it was averaging 1/2" left so I decided to move the scope back 2 clicks to the right. This scope is the Leupold Ultimate Slam, so I am going to have to get used to sighting in right on the money, then checking the longer range dots for accuracy. My powder measure only goes to 125 grains, so I opened it all the way up to 125. 125 gr BH209, 200 gr SST, and this time I deceided to use my favorite Fed 209 primers. The group measured right at 1" exactly, but all three Fed 209A primers would not drop out of the NFPJ bolt extension. This is a minor annoyance, just need to recock and dry fire, and they all dropped right out after the dry fire. This knocks the primer back into the battery cup and allows them to fall out. I was pleased with this group.

After the last group my fingers were numb, so I packed it up for the day. I will probably shoot more later in the week, before I decide whether I want to do the recrown, but it looks as if it may be needed. This was a new NFPJ conversion I bought just for this rifle, ignition was perfect, but it does allow a lot more soot/blowback into the bolt area. The one I have for my Disc Extreme lets very little pass by the primers. I think a little mod is in order for one of these plugs.

This is what the crown looked like before I recrowned it, it shoots much better now but I don't have a pic after recrowning. Check that first.

I had to compress the pics, I hope you guys can see them. I have a 22" screen and a blind man could see the poor crown on this rifle. If it were not one of the last ones, I would have sent it back. I will be getting it recrowned. Please excuse the dirty bore and the Q-Tip fibers, I just swabbed the crown and the first inch or so to take the pic. I got some new sabots and bullets today, plan on shooting again this weekend. First pic right side up, second pic upside down, little lop-sided to say the least.

What do you guys think?

 

[LeadHead]

WOW some outstanding Info allready Thanks guys . I will check out all this for sure .

I guess I should have given a little more Info my self as well !

I bought this gun brandnew when FFF had them on close out So the gun is new.
I dont think the tips of the bullets are getting deformed as I am useing a Powerrod with the hollow tip.
The sabots with the SST are the MMP Tan They load stiff But not bad at all Nice equale preshure to seat bullet.
The sabots with the Shockwaves VERY hard almost have to stand on RR to seat bullet . :evil:
letting Barrle cool for 15 min. between shots
Swabbing between shots so no crud ring at all
Replaced BP with brand New one

will order some Harvester sabots too.

Sabotloader I did go back and checked the Floating of the barrle Dollor slid 1/2 way to lug and stopped so I sanded stock and now Dollor slides all the way back to lug now ! This could have been the big probblem we will see !
Busta will check the crown for sure Sweet Pic Thanks !

so youu guys don't think that 110 gr will push these bullets to hard thats good news as well ! 8)

thanks so far guys I will report back again !

 

[Reese]

In the two Knight .45's that I have, I get the best accuracy from them when I use the Harvester smooth light blue sabots with the 200 gr SST/SW. When I use the supplied light tan/almost white sabot, it opens up the group by an inch or two. I have compared the spent sabot bases and the Harvester sabot seems to be less washed out (? lack of a better term) than the supplied sabot (MMP?).

 

[LeadHead]

Thanks Reese

I have orderd some of the light Blue Sabots of Harvesters ( This Morning )
I am Planning on shooting a little today
Weather seems Pritty good ( Overcast Temp 71 )
I will report Back to let you all know how it goes !

 

[bowbender6]

I get 1" groups with my Knight .45 and 200SW using 100-120 BH209. I found .45 calibers love BH209.

 

[LeadHead]

Well I am one HAPPY Camper now , Checked everything again and
YES SIR Mr sabotLoader The barrle was touching the stock 1/2 way back
I sanded the stock out more so now I have a true Floated Barrle NOW Also Took Advice from a former Member and Scrubbed Barrle very well
Although it looked great there must have been some Plastic / Lead build up in it ( Gerrr ) MY bad But NOW it is a tack driver for suure
100 yds 110gr 2fg 777 loose & a Hornady 200gr SST with Tan MMp sabot I am getting 1" center to center Shots 3 shot groups OUTSTANDING I have Pic But Dont know how to post them as soon as I figure it out I will post PIC.

A great BIG THANK YOUU to every one that gave their words of wisdom

LeadHead[/url]

 

[sabotloader]

LeadHead

Excellent - posting a pic here is about the same as on Hnet - the big difference is when you move the picture from Photobucket to here choose the line that says: IMG Code paste that in your post.

On this site if you get it here I can edit and make it work - plus explaine if there is a problem...

This thread might help some also...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... g+pictures

 

[LeadHead]

:yeah: You Guys Rock

On this site make sure you choose the line that says:

IMG Code... then paste it in so the line will look like this... except I put parenthesis around the IMG statement so it would not show the picture..

(

)

 

[Flhtr]

I would highly recommend the tan MMP's for .45. I use 90 grains of Blackhorn 209,a Hornady 200 grain HP/XTP and the accuracy is very good. The MMP's are worth a try.

 

[Spitpatch]

Hey LeadHead....
Just got in on this thread.....my cup a tea....

Great shooting, BTW

Please don't discount the 195 Barnes Spitfire. If you buy the Knight brand called Red Hots, it will come with a light colored tan sabot and a darker tan HP sabot. Use the darker of the two.

Also, 200 gr. Hornady XTP's with smooth BLUE Harvesters. DYNOMIIIITE!!!.

Without a doubt my 45's are my most favorite and interesting rifles.

 

[Reese]

Without a doubt my 45's are my most favorite and interesting rifles.

+1

 

[LeadHead]

Hey LeadHead....
Just got in on this thread.....my cup a tea....

Great shooting, BTW

Please don't discount the 195 Barnes Spitfire. If you buy the Knight brand called Red Hots, it will come with a light colored tan sabot and a darker tan HP sabot. Use the darker of the two.

Also, 200 gr. Hornady XTP's with smooth BLUE Harvesters. DYNOMIIIITE!!!.

Without a doubt my 45's are my most favorite and interesting rifles.

Hay Mr. Spitpatch were are youu getting your 195gr redhots at to were they come with 2 differant sabots in the same pk. :shock:

 

[Spitpatch]

Bought from a local dealer, but they are right from Knight.

 

[LeadHead]

Thank U I will try some what powder charge are U getting the best accuracy out of :?: