Avoiding scope shams...

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big6x6

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Buying a rifle/scope outfit can be a complicated and EXPENSIVE ordeal. Few of us can walk to "Acme Sporting Goods" and ask the person behind the counter, "Give me the BEST you have, COST no object." That would be the SIMPLE way to do it, wouldn't it? It has alway been funny to me to see someone plunk down $800.00 on a rifle only to purchase a $100.00 scope and $20.00 mounts to complete the outfit. After owning and actively USING riflescopes for at LEAST thirty years, that is hunting with them and doing range worth with them, I can safely tell you than your
equipment will only be as good as it's least expensive or most vulnerable component. UNFORTUNATELY this often comes down to ones choice of scopes and mounts.

After owning and using scopes on rifles from a .177 air rifle to a 6.2lb .375 H&H for over thirty years I can tell you there is more to selecting a scope than picking up your favorite mail order catalog and
looking at the SPECS! Sadly MANY of the catalog specs are misleading and are only to attract this type of consumer. Let's look at a couple of scopes. Take the BSA 3-9X50($69.99) vs. the Zeiss VM/V 3-9X40(1199.99). MANY would have you believe that the 50mm objective scope is brighter, RIGHT? While the BSA 50mm objective scope WILL have a bigger exit pupil, the QUALITY of light will be the BSAs downfall. In NO way is one to think that the BSA is a better "low-light" scope because of its
larger objective. ALSO...The BSA has a larger "field of view" at both 3X and 9X than the Zeiss ZM/Z. SO...The BSA has a larger objective AND a wider "field of view" than the Zeiss ZM/Z and is $1130.00 LESS so that makes it the best buy...RIGHT? Some, unfortunately would say, YES!

How many of you have owned a hunting rifle that quit working, that is one that wouldn't go bang and place its bullets to the desired target with reasonable accuracy? How many have even SEEN or HEARD of an average priced sporting rifle($400-$500) in average or better condition that wouldn't fire its ammunition downrange with a reasonable amount of accuracy? I NEVER have! NOW... How many of you have owned SCOPES that wouldn't hold a zero, performed poorly before sun up or at sunset, had a non-functional windage/elevation adjustment, or used a scope with insignificant eye relief? I'd venture to say MOST of you. So what IS the weak link on a hunting rifle? The scope/mounts!

So what makes a good scope? That really depends on the user and what's important to them. PERSONALLY, I want it ALL! That is great optics, light weight, more than adequate eye relief, w/e adjustments that function properly, and non-mushy mechanicals that hold their zero all wrapped up in a strong tube! But I don't really expect to get a "bargain." Do you not think I have run the gamut of riflescopes looking for a "bargain?" Of COURSE I have! Thirty years, fifteen brands, and over a hundred individual scopes later I can tell you that bargains simply don't exist! From $29.95 to $1500.00, I've tried MOST price ranges. You may not always get what you pay for, but don't expect to GET what you DON'T pay for! Guess which riflescopes have, and I hate to use this word, FAILED on me? What do I mean by FAILED? That really means in my case failure to hold a zero OR adjustments that don't adjust. It really SHOULD come as NO surprise that these scopes were the very least expensive models I have bought! Does that surprise anyone? For me at least, that "breaking point" seems to be about $150.00. Less than that and your odds of scope failure dramatically increase. Now I'm just talking scope mechanics here. Maybe a scope has "91% light transmission." If it can't hold a zero or adjust properly, it really doesn't matter at all. All this jabber about % light transmission is just that. I have NEVER seen a single independent testing of riflescopes to determine % light transmission, EVER. THAT means a manufacturer may simply state anything they want! Some would have you believe a 91% light
transmission Bushnell is in the same league optically as a 91% light transmission Swarovski Pro Hunter 2.5-10X56! Who is correct? Are we talking about the same thing here? OBVIOUSLY not! While light transmission numbers MAY be useful WITHIN a brand or product line, they are USELESS when comparing BRANDS!

Back to our $920.00 rifle/scope outfit. Since the scope/mounts ARE the most likely component of this outfit to fail, why not spend a little more here and a little LESS on the rifle! Why not a spend $400-450 on a rifle such as a Remington 700 or Weatherby Vanguard, two rifles with EXCELLENT reputations for accuracy and dependability and the REST on mounts and optics! I can practically promise you rewarding range sessions and a successful hunt provided you do your part!
 
big6x6 said:
Maybe a scope has "91% light transmission." If it can't hold a zero or adjust properly, it really doesn't matter at all. All this jabber about % light transmission is just that. I have NEVER seen a single independent testing of riflescopes to determine % light transmission, EVER. THAT means a manufacturer may simply state anything they want!

All it takes is a simple light meter. :roll:
 
big6x6 said:
Guess which riflescopes have, and I hate to use this word, FAILED on me? What do I mean by FAILED? That really means in my case failure to hold a zero OR adjustments that don't adjust. It really SHOULD come as NO surprise that these scopes were the very least expensive models I have bought! Does that surprise anyone? For me at least, that "breaking point" seems to be about $150.00. Less than that and your odds of scope failure dramatically increase. Now I'm just talking scope mechanics here.

Is that pretty much all brands or are there brand specific levels of failure?

Breaking Point:
Brand X = $130
Brand Y = $170
Brand Z = $150

Average cut off price $150.

Or:

Breaking Point:
Brand X = $150
Brand Y = $150
Brand Z = $150
 
I see your point, Patrick. That is a price across the line. Point being...I have not had any scopes above approx $150.00 to $160.00 or so that HAVE failed. That price was actually the highest price I have paid for a scope that had failed, that being a Bushnell Trophy 4-12X40AO. Others in that general price range were some Simmons scopes. BELOW that price, they seem to go south more often REGARDLESS of brand.

Make sense?
 
I understood the failure below $150 part. I was just wondering about price/brand failure levels to see if brand mattered any in the breaking point.
 
Just a few comments on this subject. I have owned alot of scopes most expensive a 1400 Leupold Ultra down to free junk tasco's. I have just about seen them all fail sooner or later. A high dollar scope that has target turrets can fail sooner or later as the movements in a scope or many times the weak link. Just today I worked on 2 slug guns with a total of 3 scopes. Scope one was a cheap Tasco 4-16x40. It lasted about 8 shots before the reticle actually turned sideways in the tube. Second was a cheap bushnell 1.5-4.5 , it never responded to even drastic changes in windage and elevation. The third scope was a Lupold Vari x 1 2-7x, it worked like a champ. The guy that had the two junkers is out the price of both junkers and is ordering a new Leupold today. The guy with the Leupold is only out the price of the Leupold. However I had one Vari x 1 fail before, but it was one of about 6 I have owned or setup rifles/slugguns with. Bottom line in my book is it is always a gamble but the odds are definetely in your favor if you buy quality to begin with.
 
big6x6 said:
Why not a spend $400-450 on a rifle such as a Remington 700 or Weatherby Vanguard, two rifles with EXCELLENT reputations for accuracy and dependability and the REST on mounts and optics!

Boy isnt this the truth. Very nice Chuck. 8)
 
Ford verses chevy verses caddy.The best scope is the one the average person can afford to buy.I've killed over 225 deer and 200 were killed just as dead with the Tasco scope on my gun as the high end scopes you believe it takes to make a clean kill.I don't have to see the wrinkles on his b-TT to know their there.I have leupold and sightron scopes that I don't hunt with,I don't drive my Lincoln deer hunting either.My leupold is a var-x 111 40mm ,it has no where near the light gathering as a $69 BSA 3x12x50 that I hunted with for 4 years without ajustments.The BSA did bite the dust the last week of deer season,but it was not the scopes fault.I broke a bolt on the gun case on my 4-wheeler and banged the gun with scope around for a few days.I hunt 50-65 days a year.Driving about 20 miles a day on the 4-wheel.A $6oo scope is not a good investment.I've spent less on all the scopes I have hunted with the past 40 years.And I can assure you I've had a ball doing it ,with no regrets on my scope choices.
 
As the topic was "Shams," that speaks to "scope branding."

High QC scopes establish a market, made by LOW, Hakko, etc. Consumers are pleased. Writers are impressed; the market is established.

Then, the OEM shopping begins-- whammo, that scope that "was" so good is now awarded to the lowest bidder. The next year, the lowest bidder again. Cost is taken out of the scope again and again, until nothing is left. That is a synopsis of the rise and fall of the Tasco juggernaut.

Others require a scorecard to follow: Redfield, Weaver, Simmons-- all failed companies, passed from Blount to ATK, now finally to Meade. Along the way, they have been assembled in scope lines all over the Pacific Rim. The Aetec began, for example, as a Japanese made scope, has fallen from grace, and is being reinvented once again-- maybe for the better, at last. :roll:

There is a lot of room from a $50 scope to a $1000 scope. If you want a solid scope for less dollars, lose objective size, lenses, and features that you really don't need-- but add cost, like A/O lenses.

Rather than a 4-12 x 50, a 2-7 x 32 is all the scope you can really use with a muzzleloader in the field.
 
The best scope is the one the average person can afford to buy.I've killed over 225 deer and 200 were killed just as dead with the Tasco scope on my gun as the high end scopes you believe it takes to make a clean kill.

That wasn't my point at ALL and I hate you took it that way! :huh?:

The point was and is that SCOPES fail, break, screw up, etc more than RIFLES do and that IF folks would spend a little extra on their optics and a little LESS on their rifles/muzzleloaders, it would pan out as more success in the FIELD. Is a Knight Disc Extreme more accurate, have a higher velocity, OR more reliable than a Knight Wolverine 209 with a 26 inch barrel? NO! But it will cost you over $200.00 more! But spend more cash on a scope and you'll be rewarded with better optics and better internals! So...the question is? Why spend $400.00 on a muzzleloader only to put $79.00 optics on it? It seems pointless to me.
 
It seems pointless to me.

:lol:

Why buy a CVA or Traditions gun, and put a scope on it at all?

It may fashionable to claim a vulgar display of poverty when buying a rifle-- but to follow that claim with purchases of pellets and Powerbelt Aerotips is either hypocritical or some rare form of insanity. :shock:
 
Big 6x6,I may have missed the point slightly.I agree dropping less $$$ on a gun for better optics is a option to consider ,so that the over all purchse of your hunting rig doesn't become a finanical burden on a working family man.

I didn't buy the BSA,my sons give it to me for x-mas on a new rem 30-06 sp.I complained one time to many about scratching my Browning Bar 7mm on the 4-wheeler.It was a good scope for 4 years.The tasco's I hunted with cost over a $100 25 years ago. Japan made and worth their money.That would be like buying a $200 scope at todays prices.
 
I have never had a scope fail. Some are definately brighter and clearer than others for sure, which really helps at dawn and dusk. Most of my scopes range from $100 to $ $250. I have been really surprised bt the clearness and brightness of my $100 Simmons 6.5X20x44 Whitetail scopes I use on my 204, 223 and 22-250. I have found the Buckmasters, Bushnell Elite 3200 , Burris Fullfield II's, and even the Mueller scopes to all be good scopes. I think many scopes are way over priced ( like gasoline!)
 
If all I ever shot was .20 and .22 caliber guns I doubt I would have many failures either. Try shooting some big bores, running the dials up and down, some assault rifles in 30 cal , slug guns and some big bullets fast in a Savage MLII and you might change your mind.
 
Rifleman said:
Try shooting some big bores, running the dials up and down, some assault rifles in 30 cal , slug guns and some big bullets fast in a Savage MLII and you might change your mind.

They will be unlikely to ever invite you back to that football stadium again. :cry:
 

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