Is Goex Pinnacle worth the aggravation?????????

[Grouse]

The powder was nothing but aggravation. FFFg was so hard to load it was horrible in my Disc Elite. At the muzzle it would just form crud. It just looked like Pigeon ****. :x It just came out in globs. once you got past that it was fine. I'll take the 777 Crud ring any day over this crap.

I'm going to take the powder to the range again with my Encore. The QLA might make a difference???? I almost broke my Knight cleaning rod trying to load the bullet with this powder. My last 6 shots were with TripleSe7en. That was really nice. 6 shots AND A 2" group in the wind.

I really think you might need to spitpatch this powder the same as 777. Velocities are much better with 777 as well. Sorry, too aggravated to take pics or write down velocities.

 

[Grouse]

I also shot the NEF SideKick as well. The exact same problems as the Disc Elite had. :?

 

[big6x6]

Hmmmm.. This powder seems to behave a LOT like the "Shockeys Gold" powder I shot last week! I had the same accumulation of "crud" at the muzzle as you. When I would spitpatch..literally FLAKES of crap would be on the patch....All from the near the muzzle. I couldn't load past five shots without using a short-starter OR spitpatching....

Let's see:
1. Lower velocities with same charge.
2. Muzzle crud ring.
3. Higher shot to shot velocity variation..
4. Others?

I'm betting "Shockeys Gold" has a VERY strong resemblance to Pinnacle. VERY strong...Get it?

So far for me...No dethroning of Triple Se7en...

 

[cayuga]

Could climate have something to do with the fowling of this powder? I shot Pinnacle FFFg last winter in my Wolverine II and the stuff was excellent. No crud rings near the breech or the muzzle and the accuracy was more then acceptable.

In fact I liked the powder so much I fully intend to purchase more when I get my next case of Goex. I guess I just never seen any of the problems being described.

I also noticed I was reading a post by a person in Arizona that shot Triple Se7en out of their Omega. The said the fowling was so bad and hard they had to pull the plug and take a bore brush to it, just to get rid of it..

Maybe I should just stick with Goex...

 

[Underclocked]

Grouse, that is in sharp contrast to Randy's experience. Must be some element of storage/transport/weather conditions??? Or just plain bad QC.

I think Pyrodex P is the best of the bunch. Aside from cleaning and stink, it is hard to beat otherwise.

 

[Grouse]

Grouse, that is in sharp contrast to Randy's experience. Must be some element of storage/transport/weather conditions??? Or just plain bad QC.

I think Pyrodex P is the best of the bunch. Aside from cleaning and stink, it is hard to beat otherwise.

UC, this stuff was bad. I will mention i was shooting from two different bottles. The SideKick and the Elite each had their own powder.

 

[Grouse]

Hmmmm.. This powder seems to behave a LOT like the "Shockeys Gold" powder I shot last week! I had the same accumulation of "crud" at the muzzle as you. When I would spitpatch..literally FLAKES of crap would be on the patch....All from the near the muzzle. I couldn't load past five shots without using a short-starter OR spitpatching....

Let's see:
1. Lower velocities with same charge.
2. Muzzle crud ring.
3. Higher shot to shot velocity variation..
4. Others?

I'm betting "Shockeys Gold" has a VERY strong resemblance to Pinnacle. VERY strong...Get it?

So far for me...No dethroning of Triple Se7en...

High Recoil, Bad accuracy, Pigeon **** on the muzzle. :cry: TripleSe7en looks even better. I hope to test the Encore with it this weekend. Maybe FFg is better then FFFg???????

 

[Grouse]

Could climate have something to do with the fowling of this powder?

Good question :?: :?:

 

[Anonymous]

The powder was nothing but aggravation.

Unfortunately, Grouse, aside from skipping your anger management class, you broke most every basic rule when testing a powder-- and, you already know better. By doing so, you came up with goose eggs: perhaps more correctly, pigeon eggs.

Whenever doing any load work at all, it is mandatory to start with a confirmed rifle, and change only one thing at a time. When one component is changed, you change everything.

Instead of a known quantity, you threw the book at the wall to see if anything stuck. Not the ideal way to approach this.

You used a scope you had never mounted or used before. You shot through a new style of breechplug you had never, ever used before. And you shot bullet / sabot combinations you had never ever shot through a Disc Elite before.

Along the way, you have discovered a unique combination-- the anomaly of high recoil and low velocity.

It should puzzle you a bit that the effortless, very clean, swab free shooting that I experienced, and that Knight Rifles experienced as well in a Disc Extreme suddenly turned to pigeon excrement for you.

It is obvious to me that you made one small, but critical error in loading Pinnacle. It is your test, so for now-- I'll enjoy keeping a Grouse in suspense. oke:

 

[MLKeith]

I am the Arizona guy that does not have good results with ffg 777. I do have good results so far with Black Mag'3. I get decent results with Clean Shot ffg. I have some Pinnacle (five pounds to be exact) and have only shot about five shots with it. Did not experience the fouling mentioned although it appeared to be a little more dirty than Black Mag'3 but certainly nothing like what was mentioned to start this thread. I really need to shoot more of the Pinnacle but the weather is now 110 and that is not anywhere near hunting temperature which may make a big difference. I just may have to go out and shoot some anyway as I would like to see it work for me. I also have to find some fffg 777 to see if that makes a difference. Sportsmans Warehouse just opened here and I think they have fffg 777 (No Pinnacle or BM3 however). I have an Omega, a T/C Hawken with the standard .54cal and a GM .50 round ball barrel, and a Traditions Pursuit LT that I can shoot the stuff through. In the mix is 209 primers, the "New" Remington 209, standard #11 and the .25ACP conversion so my variables can get a little wide also.

 

[cayuga]

MLKeith.. I really was surprised when I read your post the other day about how bad Triple Se7en fowls in the rifle. I shoot it all the time in my Black Diamond XR and really do not experience much of any described problems other people seem to have. Granted there is a slight hard crud ring near the breech but it is nothing a wet swab patch will not remove... When I read how you were forced to pull the breech plug I could well understand the reason for your search for a better powder.

So maybe the climate and the model of rifle all make a difference. All I know is Pinnacle worked great for me except when shooting large conicals. Then the accuracy just was not as good as when I shoot with the Triple Se7en.

 

[Grouse]

Mr. Wakeman informs me today that the new Goex powder with no instructions supplied. Needs atleast 50#'s of pressure to seat the bullet. The Goal is to smash the powder with the bullet. Then you can shoot happily all day per Wakeman. Know Pigeon **** will form on the Muzzle. My next range session will be with the same Gun, and same powder. Results to follow this weekend. I Hope.

 

[big6x6]

Great tip on the loading pressure! I have a 50bs anvil in the back yard and I'll gently set it on top of the ramrod when using Pinnacle!

The "instructions" for Shockeys Gold say to "seat powder firmly." I'm scratching my head to figure out how to do that!

 

[Anonymous]

Mr. Wakeman informs me today that the new Goex powder with no instructions supplied.

Are you calling up my Dad again?

 

[MLKeith]

Good tip on the seating pressure. I am sure the limited shots I made were not seated that firmly. I usually only set the bullet on the powder with probably less than 15lb. force. Next time I shoot Pinncle I will seat FIRMLY.

 

[Grouse]

Went back to the range today with my T/C Encore. I made sure i stood basically on the Ram Rod when loading. That made it a little better. Not much. With three different MuzzleLoaders i have the same problem. The Gun is just way to hard to start bullets at the Muzzle.

At the end of this range session. I took a 250grn ShockWave with a new formulation Harvester sabot and spit patched between shots. This was the group i shot.

I did notice between shots alot of Crud down near the Breech plug. It wasnt as bad as the 777 Crud ring. But it's pretty bad. I do believe i could get this powder to work spit patching between shots. I dont know if it's worth it yet. Next trip to the range will be nothing but spit patching between shot's to find an accurate load.

 

[Anonymous]

Went back to the range today with my T/C Encore.

Did you try HPH-24 sabots?

 

[cayuga]

Grouse.. you sure had a nice group going there.. it's a shame that one got thrown out of the group.

 

[Grouse]

Did you try HPH-24 sabots?

HPH12 and Harvesters are all i tried. HPH12's are a great sabot for the 250grn ShockWave. The supplied sabots are to hard to load.

 

[Anonymous]

Did you try HPH-24 sabots?

HPH12 and Harvesters are all i tried. HPH12's are a great sabot for the 250grn ShockWave. The supplied sabots are to hard to load.

My Encore has a tight barrel, and it needs HPH24s with SST's. As you were talking about hard to load, I'm surprised you didn't try them.

About 40 lbs. of ramrod pressure-- it isn't that much, and that's how I seat all sabots regardless of muzzleloader. Pinnacle is easy to fragment, you can do that just rubbing a few grains between your fingers. I don't think you'll find spit-patching the way to go at all; totally unnecessary.

Just get good, consistent compaction and keep on shooting. :drinkers: