Range session for Velocity data

[saxman1]

After reading greatbasin's post about his daughter passing her hunters saftey course and a GREAT report card.Congrats on her new rifle as well
I PM'd him and offered to do some velocity testing at lower charges.

Here is what I came up with

Temp 59
wind NNE @ 2 mph
humidity 51%
slight drizzle

The Chronograph is set @ 25 yards,I have no debris shield

Here is a picture of my set up today
The lead sled has 25 lbs of weight

And here is one looking through the scope downrange

First I shot the 50 cal Optima
4x16x40 IR centerpoint scope mil dot reticle

Started with 70 grn BH-209 with CCI-M primer
250 grn Shockwave with supplied black sabot
3 shot string

#1) 1418
#2) 1429
#3) 1454
Average 1433
Variance 36

Here is the 70 grn target with scope adjustments

Next I went to 80 grn BH-209
CCI-M primer
250 grn SW
3 shot string

#1) 1527
#2) 1536
#3) 1513
Average 1525
Variance 23

90 grn BH-209
CCI-M primer
250 grn SW
3 shot string

#1) 1648
#2) 1644
#3) 1622
Average 1638
Variance 26

I didn't go up to 100 as you mentioned she didn't like that.
I hope these 3 strings give you an idea of where to start with her

Next I decided to shoot the 240 grn TC Mag Express with the XTP Bullet,supplied black sabot.This testing was for me.

90 grn BH-209
CCI-M primer
240 grn mag x with xtp bullet
5 shot string

#1) 1633
#2) 1644
#3) 1622
#4) 1596
#5) 1628
Average 1624
Variance 48

I bumped the charge up to 100 grn.

100 grn BH-209
CCI-M primer
240 grn mag x with xtp bullet
3 shot string

#1) 1694
#2) 1709
#3) 1716
Average 1707
Variance 22

Next I shot the CVA Kodiak 45 cal with APP FFFG
4x16x40 IR centerpoint scope mil dot reticle

100 grn APP FFFg
Fusion primer
200 grn Hornady SST-ML
First string - 5 shots

#1) 1857
#2) 2070
#3) 2008
#4) 1811
#5) 1984
Average 1946
Variance 259

Second string - 6 shots

#1) 1891
#2) 1952
#3) 1624 (not sure what happened here,don't know if I seated it right)
#4) 2089
#5) 1966
#6) 1756
Average 1895
Variance 465

I don't have any other targets that I'm proud enough of to post.
Even with the lead sled I am all over the place.
All shots were killing shots but not what I'm looking for from a solid rest.
I think it's BB gun time.

 

[santoslhalper]

Very interesting post, thanks!

I'm VERY surprised at the huge velocity variations with APP. I've seen some reports of erratic velocities with APP and JSG, but I would never have expected that much. I doubt you'll get any sort of accuracy with APP if its shooting like that. Conversly, the BH209 seems very consistent.

 

[frontier gander]

awesome post sax!! Did you measure the APP by volume? I was curious if you were to weigh it on the scale to make sure all charges are the same weight and then test it again and see if it would make a difference in the #'s.

i need to get me one of those! Those look to be a lot of fun.

 

[greatbasin]

Hey Saxman,
Megan was touched that someone would take the time to research loads for her...me too, I must say.
I am encouraged to see the speeds that were able to get with such light charges (1400 fps. with 70 grs.) much better than I expected. 70-80 grs. is going to work great for her and gives us plenty of room to fine tune for accuracy, which also looks good for you...Great data. I'll post her range session after we get out.

 

[saxman1]

awesome post sax!! Did you measure the APP by volume? I was curious if you were to weigh it on the scale to make sure all charges are the same weight and then test it again and see if it would make a difference in the #'s.

i need to get me one of those! Those look to be a lot of fun.

Yes,I did it by volume
If we don't get hit with rain tomorrow I'll go back out with some weighed charges and see if I can shoot better than today.
The lead sled helps alot but it has it's little quirks.
Today I was holding the forend of the gun also,per the instructions but I saw some pictures of guys shooting off them and they kept there non trigger hand off of the gun.Thought I would try that.
If nothing else I damn sure burnt some powder and flung some chunks of metal downrange today and it was a blast.
I had to sight in both guns again because they have different scopes on them now.I have had them for a while now and never mounted them untill I started missing with the other one.

The APP does have the velocity issue but I can't say I was any less accurate with it.

 

[cayuga]

A really interesting post since I shoot my Wolverine with 80 grains normally.

 

[frontier gander]

my bro and i are going out tomorrow to do some APP shooting. Im going to try 90gr JSG 3f. I havent shot a whole lot of it so if i figure something out, i'll let you know.

i'll get down on my knees tonight and pray that u dont get any rain! lol

 

[GM54-120]

Thats pretty good fps for APP and i got some JSG 3FG.

I havent really tried it yet in the Accura 45 only my others but i will now. I wonder how fast it will shoot some sub 200s.

 

[SwampFox]

That is very interesting saxman.I never have like that APP powder,but nerver knew why.But with the diffrence's in the velocity it produce,i can not see why,lol
Looking forward to reading some more of your finding's.
Great Job

 

[saxman1]

Thats pretty good fps for APP and i got some JSG 3FG.

I havent really tried it yet in the Accura 45 only my others but i will now. I wonder how fast it will shoot some sub 200s.

I may try it in the 45 with the 175 Red hots

 

[saxman1]

Hey Saxman,
Megan was touched that someone would take the time to research loads for her...me too, I must say.
I am encouraged to see the speeds that were able to get with such light charges (1400 fps. with 70 grs.) much better than I expected. 70-80 grs. is going to work great for her and gives us plenty of room to fine tune for accuracy, which also looks good for you...Great data. I'll post her range session after we get out.

My pleasure Megan,keep up the great work in school and good luck on your bear hunt.

 

[Lee 9]

Good report Scott. If you keep your records for a while it will be interesting to figure the standard deviation. A good even velocity is necessary for any kind of tight group at a decent distance and knowing the standard deviation is a big help. Lee

 

[saxman1]

Good report Scott. If you keep your records for a while it will be interesting to figure the standard deviation. A good even velocity is necessary for any kind of tight group at a decent distance and knowing the standard deviation is a big help. Lee

I have a notebook for each gun with the max muzzleloader data sheets and targets (unless I forget to print some out) and will be recording this dta from now on.
I just really need to improve my shooting.

 

[tpcollins]

If these measurements are taken with the chrono set at 25 yards, how much higher would the velocity be at the muzzle?

 

[saxman1]

If these measurements are taken with the chrono set at 25 yards, how much higher would the velocity be at the muzzle?

I will try that and at the target

 

[Lee 9]

Scott
I have been using a chrony at 25 yd also and I checked to see what the normal difference is at the muzzle at 2000 FPS it runs 95 to 96 FPS. I have a Plexiglas shield but it is homemade and there is no point in pushing our luck. Lee

 

[tnhagies]

WOW,

Variance 259
Variance 465

That's a lot! I can imagine out at 100+ yards they'd start to spread out pretty good.

 

[john keyes]

#1) 1857
#2) 2070
#3) 2008
#4) 1811
#5) 1984
Average 1946
Variance 259

Second string - 6 shots

#1) 1891
#2) 1952
#3) 1624 (not sure what happened here,don't know if I seated it right)
#4) 2089
#5) 1966
#6) 1756
Average 1895
Variance 465

.

I don't think these are variances in velocity. I think that those are due to sabots interfering with the reading.
Did you look to see where your sabots were releasing and how far they went?

 

[Lee 9]

John, he only had the normal variance with blackhorn. I also got this result with APP; its enough to really mess a fellow up at 200yds. Lee

 

[john keyes]

I hear ya, I don't disagree that would be an EPIC velocity variation...but still its a different gun, caliber, and bullet

if that happened with the APP powder in his 50 cal that would show something but It still could be the APP powder makes the sabot stick to the bullet and not release well..hell I don't know

saxman, get some slow motion video of your projectiles, okay?


I've shot my ML through my chrono a grand total of one time. the load that shed the sabot right in the grass a few yards from the bench showed excellent data. the load that didn't was all jacked up and the sabots were found down range

I'm guessing that the very slow readings arise from a sabot making it through the screens after a bullet. but yes I'm guessing, I'd like to know for sure.

bottom line, I'm very interested in all of this and getting accurate chrono readings. what they tell us is extremely valuable