New huntress / New rifle

[greatbasin]

Well, my 12 yo. daughter passed Idaho Hunters Ed. over Christmas break and I am so proud.
Anyway, she wants to hunt bears this spring with me as her first hunt. So, after earning a youth Wolverine with all A's on her last report card, she will be at the range very soon to see what kind of recoil she can handle. She already knows she doesn't enjoy 100gr. of BH209 because she's shot my rifle a few times. However, she did fine in regards to accuracy.

The questions I have for the hunters here is...with a well constructed bullet in the 250 gr. range...
1)How light a powder charge do you think we can get away with for bears at less than 50 yds.? Spring bears in ID are not large (125-300 lbs. usually)
2) What do you think that will look like in terms of muzzle velocity?

I was thinking that I'll start at about 70-80 grs. and see what we get for speed and accuracy. Thoughts...

 

[saxman1]

I don't know about bears but I have been shooting 90 grn BH 209 with a 200 grn SW.
I am recoil sensitive and the 90 grn charge is very comfortable for me in the 45 cal.

Congrats to her and you and good luck on the hunt.
I love it when my kids want to go with me.

 

[greatbasin]

I don't know about bears but I have been shooting 90 grn BH 209 with a 200 grn SW.
I am recoil sensitive and the 90 grn charge is very comfortable for me in the 45 cal.

Congrats to her and you and good luck on the hunt.
I love it when my kids want to go with me.

Thanks Saxman.
Have you run that 90gr. load through a chronograph?

 

[Reese]

Under PA's Mentor program, I was able to take my nine year old son deer hunting. We did not see anything on the days he was out, but we had a great time.

In preparation for deer hunting, I had him try several muzzleloaders. He is on the small size for his age but makes up for it in attitude. He handled 120gr BH209 with a 200 gr SW in a Knight Elite just fine. However, the Elite is a little heavier than the Wolverine. I had him try a Wolverine and he did well in the 80-90 gr range shooting 200 gr SW. I had him try a .50 cal Huntsman and he did fine with 90 gr BH209 and 250 gr XTP. We hunted from a tree stand with a shooting rail and set a max range for him to shoot. He could not shot any of these rifles well enough off-hand so the shooting rail was a must for him to use.

 

[black powder]

i have shot a few bears .. i would use the BARNES TMZ 250gr bullet .you need a solid bullet the only way to nail them on the spot is a shoulder shot .very leathal ..heart and lung shots are ok but u will have to track it down ,not very comfortable in thick bush and that is exactly were he will go.and he can cover a lot of space before he expires .blood trail will be next to nothing .i suggest a tree blind for the youngster it will remove some of her anticipation facing the bear ..as for the powder it depens of how much recoil she can handle ..

get her a good recoil pad [limbsaver]

good luck on the hunt

 

[Lee 9]

The Lehigh 200gr bullet with 80 gr Blackhorn or 777 will give 1700 + in a Triumph with a blue 50/ 40 MMP sabot. This would do quite nicely on a 250 pound bear at 50 yds and under.

 

[cayuga]

In that wolverine I would be shooting a 250 grain Barnes MZ with 80 grains of Triple Seven. Because of the open hammer design of the Wolverine, I would not trust BH209, although it would probably work. Just make sure your daughter wears safety glasses when she shoots BlackHorn 209.

Have her in a tree stand if legal and possible. I am not sure if that load would break down a shoulder. Some of them boar have a pretty tuff shoulder. I would poke it behind the shoulder through the heart and lungs. That bear hit WILL run off and like said, it will head for the most nasty stuff it can find usually. Stay real still and quiet after the shot and listen for the death moan on that bear. Also like said, there will not be a lot of blood usually, they tend to plug up fast. So look at the underbrush, they really tear up leaves and break small saplings even when they death run off.

When you spot the bear "dead" on the ground, stop where you are. Just stand and watch that bear. I would wait fifteen minutes at least. Watch for breathing. I remember a bear we shot on my place. Positive it was dead mind you, until it stood up and staggered off.

 

[santoslhalper]

+1 on th 250 Barnes Expander & 70 - 80 grains of 777. The 250 Gold Dot would be a good choice too.

 

[greatbasin]

Thanks for the bear hunting advice, guys. I feel comfortable teaching my daughter on a hunt like this because I've shot a bunch of bears with a muzzleloader and the last 3 out 4 were shot with some type of Barnes bullet, too. They always rate high on my hunting bullet list.
I am hoping to get the 250 gr. Barnes Expanders flying well at about 1400-1500 fps. They have a good sized open front that will have a big impact and hopefully open big at a slower speed. Two years ago I shot a bear with real BP, a 370 gr. Maxiball at about 1400 fps and the bullet barley made an exit (it was imbedded 1/4 in. into a log.) I think the sharp cutting pedals of the copper on the Barnes will help in penetration. That Maxiball was big and it opened up some, but it was smooth and rounded over. I bet with a sharp edged Barnes, even if we get down to 1000 to 1200 fps. due to recoil limits...we'll still get good results and most likely an exit hole, too.

This is after the brown truck drove off. My girl is growing up and I'm excited like a kid :wink:

 

[Mark whiz]

As a point of reference, out of my Knight USAK (virtually identical to the Wolverine) I routinely shoot 300gr sabots with 80gr of 777 and it chronos at 1500fps with a calculated 1500ft lbs of energy.

This load using PR bullets QT pure lead sabot (with a rubber tip) have done wonders on wild boar for me in the 150 to 200lb range. No exit hole but they dropped porky on the spot. I would expect smokey bear to fight it a little more - but that bullet expands to at least twice it's diameter and does lots of internal damage.

BTW - it does my heart good to see a fine young woman like your daughter picking up arms and sharing the experiences of her Dad!

 

[saxman1]

I don't know about bears but I have been shooting 90 grn BH 209 with a 200 grn SW.
I am recoil sensitive and the 90 grn charge is very comfortable for me in the 45 cal.

Congrats to her and you and good luck on the hunt.
I love it when my kids want to go with me.

Thanks Saxman.
Have you run that 90gr. load through a chronograph?

No sir I have not but am planing a range session tomorrow to prepare for my 10 day ML hunt next month.

I will shoot some @ 90 grn with a 200 & 250 grain and get you some numbers.
Is the wolf a 50 cal? (I don't know if they even make a wolf in 45)
If it is a 50 I will test with my Optima 50.

 

[greatbasin]

Thanks Saxman that's a nice offer.

Megans rifle is a .50
Have fun shooting...I can wait until we get out...but we have a stormy weekend predicted this week.

 

[cayuga]

I sure love to see young people in this sport. With that new rifle, she sure looks happy. I hope she gets a big bear. And since you have a lot of experience with shooting bear, she could not have a better teacher.

 

[greatbasin]

Mark,
Thanks for the kind words. She's a good kid and it is doing my heart wonders.

 

[TJJ]

Its great to see the next generation being introduced to hunting. I'm sure you must be very proud.

 

[greatbasin]

cayuga,
Thanks. I didn't mean to sound like a know-it-all...far from it. I'm just lucky enought live close to my baiting area and the days are long enough that I don't even have to skip work to hunt. I'm still learning every chance I can get about both animal and the tools we like to use to take 'em and your advice on both is appericated.
Last year was the first time I had a bear do the moan and that's just nuts. The sound is surreal and it comes just you're peaking with adreanlin. It's truly a sound that gives a bear hunter real peace of mind.

TJJ,
I'm as proud as any of you fathers would be of your own child.

I have a lot to do to get this hunt and hunter all set-up by April 15. The first thing on the list this weekend is doing a custom paint job on Megan's rifle stock...colors of her choice of course :shock: Then when the weather clears it's off to the range.

 

[TJJ]

One thing I've noticed with young hunters, is that they seem to have a little difficulty with consistency when shooting open sights. You may want to consider a scope for hunting. I encourage the kids to shoot open sights during off season range sessions by removing their scopes .:lol:

 

[greatbasin]

Good call TJJ. I forgot to mention that a Leupold 3.5X10 will be going on top, for precise shot placement in what is usually very low light conditions.

 

[ds541]

it's great to see young people in the sport so congrats to your daughter on passing her hunter ed.and also the all a's on the report card. congrats to you for having a daughter that wanted to take hunter's ed.in the first place!dont forget to post pic's of her bear when she gets it.