Knight Vision Problems

[cbarnettoc14]

Hello all,

I am having a problem with my Knight Vision still... I changed powder to Jim Shockey's Gold FF loose from 777 pellets. I found the combo best for my gun is 95 gr. and I am shooting 295 gr. hollow point powerbelts. The grouping is fine but it seems that the first shot from a cold barrel, fouled or not, is always a flier and not even close to the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th (which group good in kill zone)shot... Its so bad I cant even adjust for the first because it is always different... Has anyone else encountered this or have any advice on how to straighten this out? Thanks to all in advance!

 

[frontier gander]

what primers are you using?

The gold stuff isnt supposed to be that great. I'd try some pyrodex RS and either some Winchester W209 - Winchester 777 or CCI Inline MZL primers and see how that goes.

 

[cbarnettoc14]

I am using Winchestor 209s, I am certain I am seating the bullet properly everytime and my measurements are certain everytime also... I have never had a hang fire and perform regular maint. on my gun... thanks for the advice.

 

[frontier gander]

i'd look at some new primers then. The 777 primers or cci MZL primers are where i'd look.

 

[Semisane]

it seems that the first shot from a cold barrel, fouled or not, is always a flier and not even close to the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th

I can't figure out how that could be a primer or powder problem.

If you're getting a flier on the first shot from a cold barrel regardless of whether the barrel is clean or fouled, and decent groups with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th shots (I assume on a warm barrel) there are only three variables in play - the temperature of the barrel, the status of the barrel bedding/sights prior to the first recoil, and action by the shooter. So here are some rambling thoughts on each of those.

1. Barrel temperature of a second shot isn't all that different from the first shot. A little warmer, sure, but not enough to make a significant difference in POI.

2. Is it possible that gun handling prior to the first shot (carrying around, in & out of a gun case, riding in a vehicle, etc.) is doing something that shifts the bedding of the barrel in the stock, or the buttstock to the breech, or the sight system in some way, and that shift is returned to a more stable state by the recoil of the first shot?

3. Is it possible that you settle down and just shoot better after the first shot? It might be worth a try to have someone else take the first shot from a cold barrel and see what happens.

 

[k]

my knight vision seems to do well with a lot of differant bullets,240g t/c cheapshots,250gxtp's, .430 300g xtp's,250g sst's using harvester sabots.for powder i've only used t7-fff or blackhorn 209.the above bullets all shot well with 90g vol. t7-fff or 100g vol. blackhorn.the most accurate load i've found is barnes 250g tmz with the supplied yellow sabot over 100g vol. blackhorn using win.209 primers.this vision came with nfpj breechplug and is blowback free......karl

 

[sabotloader]

cbarnettoc14

I would venture a guess... I believe it is your lock-up mechanism not locking the barrel up tight.

The Vision uses a real positive lock up mechanism but, along with that especially a with new gun it can hang up a bit because of packing grease and the mechanism is not mated to each other smoothly.

Take the gun apart and use some steel wool and JB's bore paste and polish the barrel hook smooth. Then remove the trigger mechanism from the receiver. Clean all the factory grease from the lever and latch assembly - polish the latch as you did the catch. Oil with a quality oil. Assemble the whole gun again. Open and close the gun a few times to check how positive the lockup grabs the barrel. I would also suggest that close it sharply to aid the latch to come into the catch agressivly. As you break the gun in this will be less of a factor.

How I am looking at this is the break open barrel assembly is not latch tight... the explosion of the charge is causing the barrel to move a bit as the projectile is moving down the barrel. The successive shots I would bet you are getting a better latch up as the mechanism is a little more free from being used.

Just a hunch and a guess.

 

[Widude]

I like Jim Shockey, just bought an older DVD of his on markdown, but that 'Gold' powder is another issue. You may have other causes but I'd move on to B209, & if not at least loose 777 or last Pyrodex.

 

[cbarnettoc14]

thank you to all for the replys, ive got alot of work to do still...
K - what does the breech plug you have look like because i also got 2 with my mine and i think i might have that also... i would like to switch to b209 but i am not sure if i have the proper plug... it only fits a 209 in side it without the jacket that goes around it on the other breech plug?

 

[k]

thats it,use the breechplug that just takes a bare 209 primer.sabotloader+semisane both make good points ,repeatability is always important and so is the cleaning of the action and trigger group of shipping grease.the two visions i've handled had hard to open actions as delivered.after i cleaned mine i lubed it with slip 2000 the action was much smoother and i have been very happy with this knight for it's ability to shoot anything i shove down the bore.good luck i'm sure you'll get it all worked out.if you use blackhorn use a tight fitting sabot........karl

 

[sabotloader]

k

Slip 2000 an amazing good oil....

 

[k]

k

Slip 2000 an amazing good oil....

the more i use it the more i like it.....karl

 

[coltchris]

I set up the Knight Vision for my Grandson, and yes, the action is stiff. The first load I tried (info from this site) was 100 gr. of Blackhorn, 300 gr. SST, Harvester Short Black sabot, and CCI Mag. primer. Never had to go any farther; it shoots 1" consistantly at 100 yds. In fact, he shot a nice doe today with it; bang-flop!

 

[cbarnettoc14]

I just want to take a second to thank all of you on here! All of your information has been so helpful since I joined last year! This is only my second season shooting a smokepole and if not for this site I would have no idea to properly handle my gun! Thanks to all of you who invest time into helping newbs like myself, another thanks to all of you who invest time away from your jobs and families to test new products and put up some of the most critical reviews of them, and finally a big thanks to the ones who run and maintain this fine web forum and keep its integrity true, and maintain a very welcoming atmosphere!

 

[rat trapper]

I'd try a different bullet. In all the rifles I've worked with power belts were the worse. I know some guys like them, but not me. triple seven works better than what you are using for powder as well.

 

[cbarnettoc14]

Thanks to all for the advice... I shot today finally and tested 3 different bullets and 2 powders and the combination of the 295 grn powerbelt and 95 grn. of FFG shockeys gold did the trick... i had never done a spit patch before between shots, and after 5 shots I had my gun driving tacks at 1 1/2 in high at 50 yrds with a .5in group for 3 three shots... i also made sure that with each load i consistently seated the bullet and WOW I have a new mark that I never had before... once again thanks to all of you who helped me out with my newbie ness! Our gun season starts the 30th here in Ohio so hopefully i will have some pics to post!

 

[cbarnettoc14]

Hello everyone! I just wanted to let you all know I finally got my first kill with a ML! I will post on the success stories section later with pics ! Thanks to all of you who helped me with my load problems!