ok heres another horror story. i took my TC to a range yesterday. i wanted to see an actual 200 yard shot from my rifle. after a fouling shot, i took aim and touched her off. the shot was at least 16 inches low, possibly more. i fired three shots altogether and they were within an 8 inch or less area . windage was on @ 200 but the bullet drop was as i said at least 16 inches. this rifle is zeroed @ 100 yards, dead on. 1.25-1.50 group appox. i will be checking scope mounts and such. the gun and load is as follows: TC Encore Pro-Hunter 28" barrel, 2 IMR white hot pellets, a Hornady hsld sabot 250 grain sst bullet, and a W209ML primer. All loads are seated to the mark on my ramrod. If this is normal ballistics, what is an average 100 yard sight in i.e. 2 inches high ,etc.
200 yard shots
- Thread starter shrimpy50
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shrimpy50
This might give you some thoughts...
I believe this was shot with 110 grains of loose T7-2f and you can see that I sight in using a 6" Point blank Range, meaning anywhere from 0 yards to 193 I should be within 3" of my aiming point. No higher the 3 and no lower than 3...
Good theory but you need to shoot it to verify it....
This might give you some thoughts...
I believe this was shot with 110 grains of loose T7-2f and you can see that I sight in using a 6" Point blank Range, meaning anywhere from 0 yards to 193 I should be within 3" of my aiming point. No higher the 3 and no lower than 3...
Good theory but you need to shoot it to verify it....
Sabotloader is correct on trajectory. Here's a ballistic calculator that I use
to answer all sorts of questions about that....
...http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html. Hope this helps.
to answer all sorts of questions about that....
...http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html. Hope this helps.
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Try a full strength 209 or six and see where you are hitting. Maybe you aren't getting complete burn out of those White Hots??
Shrimpy50--you got the trajectory I would have expected. Our muzzle loaders are not .22/250's.
Scroll down this thread and look at my post about 250 Shock Waves and Blackhorn 209--there are a couple pics of some recent targets I shot.
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... highlight=
Sighted about 2 1/2" high at 100, I am still 10" low at 200 with a 250 grn. SW and 110 grns. of BH209. My muzzle velocity is probably about 1900 fps. but I have not chronographed that exact load yet. That is why I went to a Leupold Ultimate Slam scope this year with its multiple aiming points.
When I shot 2 777 pellets and a 300 grn XTP I would sight in 3" high at 100 and was about 16" low at 200, BUT the "point" of my duplex reticle at 9X was on at 200 and I used that as an extra "crosshair." I killed a nice Iowa 10 pt. at 171 yds. with that set up in 2004.
If you want to think about 200 yard shots you really have to get out and practice them and learn to live with ML trajectories. Even the "fast" ones are like rainbows compared to my varmint centerfire rifle.
And the manufacturers always seem to claim that their powders and bullets shoot faster and flatter than they actually do. You have to shoot your gun and your loads to verify impact points. But I think that is the fun part anyway--JMO & .02
Have fun and keep shooting.
Scroll down this thread and look at my post about 250 Shock Waves and Blackhorn 209--there are a couple pics of some recent targets I shot.
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... highlight=
Sighted about 2 1/2" high at 100, I am still 10" low at 200 with a 250 grn. SW and 110 grns. of BH209. My muzzle velocity is probably about 1900 fps. but I have not chronographed that exact load yet. That is why I went to a Leupold Ultimate Slam scope this year with its multiple aiming points.
When I shot 2 777 pellets and a 300 grn XTP I would sight in 3" high at 100 and was about 16" low at 200, BUT the "point" of my duplex reticle at 9X was on at 200 and I used that as an extra "crosshair." I killed a nice Iowa 10 pt. at 171 yds. with that set up in 2004.
If you want to think about 200 yard shots you really have to get out and practice them and learn to live with ML trajectories. Even the "fast" ones are like rainbows compared to my varmint centerfire rifle.
And the manufacturers always seem to claim that their powders and bullets shoot faster and flatter than they actually do. You have to shoot your gun and your loads to verify impact points. But I think that is the fun part anyway--JMO & .02
Have fun and keep shooting.
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Shrimpy, the concept of "point blank range" means to take the best advantage of the trajectory of any given bullet, and the best thing to do is sight the rifle in for the longest range possible that does not result in misses at shorter ranges due to the bullet being too high.
If you sighted a high velocity flat-shooting rifle like a .270 in for 100 yards, the drop at 200 or 300 yards would surprise you. The bullet would be 4 or 5 inches low at 200 yards.
So the best way to sight in a .270 is to set the sights for about 230-250 yards. The bullet will be 3" high at 100 yards, 4" high at 150, about 2" high at 200, and about 5" or so low at 300. Therefore you can aim at the center of a deer's chest cavity from 0 to 290 yards or so and never miss the 10" high vital area.
With a muzzleloader, you are dealing with lower velocities and bullets of lower ballistic coefficient, so the point blank range will be shorter. If you sight in at about 150 yards, you will be about 2 1/2" high at 100 and about 6" low at 200, so you have a point blank range of about 180-190 yards or so, depending on your load.
Does that clear it up, or make it more muddy?
If you sighted a high velocity flat-shooting rifle like a .270 in for 100 yards, the drop at 200 or 300 yards would surprise you. The bullet would be 4 or 5 inches low at 200 yards.
So the best way to sight in a .270 is to set the sights for about 230-250 yards. The bullet will be 3" high at 100 yards, 4" high at 150, about 2" high at 200, and about 5" or so low at 300. Therefore you can aim at the center of a deer's chest cavity from 0 to 290 yards or so and never miss the 10" high vital area.
With a muzzleloader, you are dealing with lower velocities and bullets of lower ballistic coefficient, so the point blank range will be shorter. If you sight in at about 150 yards, you will be about 2 1/2" high at 100 and about 6" low at 200, so you have a point blank range of about 180-190 yards or so, depending on your load.
Does that clear it up, or make it more muddy?
Shrimpy50,
Here is scope that some on this site use for our muzzleloaders. You sight these dead on at 100 yards with the recommended 250 grain bullet and 150 grains of powder. Look at the short clip at this Cabela?s link and by looking at the video you will see a visual on how much drop there is a at 200 yards but these scopes sure work as advertised. Your 16 inch drop at 200 yards sounds about right on for your configuration.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conte ... pe_lg.html
Here is scope that some on this site use for our muzzleloaders. You sight these dead on at 100 yards with the recommended 250 grain bullet and 150 grains of powder. Look at the short clip at this Cabela?s link and by looking at the video you will see a visual on how much drop there is a at 200 yards but these scopes sure work as advertised. Your 16 inch drop at 200 yards sounds about right on for your configuration.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conte ... pe_lg.html
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Maybe I figured this wrong, but I ran a 250 grain shockwave with a BC of .250 at around 1700 fps (ruff guess), dead on at 100 yards, with a .452 diameter. It said you should have a -16+ bullet drop out to 200 yards.
I kind of believe this because when I was shooting approximately the same load at a paper plate at 150 yards, I discovered I had to aim on the top of that plate with the cross hair to get them to sit on/in or near the middle of the plate. I guessed I was getting about a six inch drop.
Now Sabotloader can usually figure this all down to exact science. I do a lot of practicing to get myself in the ball park.
I kind of believe this because when I was shooting approximately the same load at a paper plate at 150 yards, I discovered I had to aim on the top of that plate with the cross hair to get them to sit on/in or near the middle of the plate. I guessed I was getting about a six inch drop.
Now Sabotloader can usually figure this all down to exact science. I do a lot of practicing to get myself in the ball park.
The normal drop I would expect with that load "0" @ 100yds would be 14.5 inches @ 200 yds.
Using the max point blank range system with a 6 inch kill ares.
100yds =+3 "0"=150yds 175 yds= -3.25 and 200yds =-8
I hope this gives you a better perspective.
Just to give you some thing to think about
the 200gr Shock Wave with 120 gr Blackhorn 209
100yds= +3inches 170yds="0" 200yds= -3 inches
Using the max point blank range system with a 6 inch kill ares.
100yds =+3 "0"=150yds 175 yds= -3.25 and 200yds =-8
I hope this gives you a better perspective.
Just to give you some thing to think about
the 200gr Shock Wave with 120 gr Blackhorn 209
100yds= +3inches 170yds="0" 200yds= -3 inches
My Hawken, with 100gr. loose 777, and 240 gr. XTP, sighted dead on at 100, is 6" low at 150, and 20" low at 200. I think the best practice for long shots with that particular load is with a standard velocity .22lr. The trajectory is virtually the same out of my old Mossberg 340. The key is knowing exactly how far you are shooting, and precisely where you want the impact. Laser rangefinders are very helpful for long shots, and it goes without saying that aiming for "deer" is not good enough. You must be very clear as to where to hit the animal, to kill cleanly. True for all ranges, all weapons. Nothing wrong with holdover, if you are familiar with the trajectory. Buff hunters did it all the time.
Using Oehler Ballastic Explorer ballastics calculator I figured the drop for my load and how it's sighted in. I don't have my print out here with me, it's taped to my stock, but mine is a little over 16" low at 200 yards with a 100yard zero.
300gr XTP
Ribbed sabots
90grs loose T7
CCI standard primers
1700fps at 15' from the chrono
If sighted in for point blank range everything changes.
300gr XTP
Ribbed sabots
90grs loose T7
CCI standard primers
1700fps at 15' from the chrono
If sighted in for point blank range everything changes.
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i think the best way is to shoot it and then shoot some more.i have a white 410 with a nikon omega scope.the scope has 4 circles to represent different ranges,its set up for a 50cal and 150gr saboted loads.
of coarse the 410 will have a differend rainbow but i have shot it at at 200yds at the range and got bored hittin the 200yd gong.
last year a shot my first ever whitetail at 210yds with this set up.
load is 70grs 3f 777 home cast 455gr slug. :wink:
the scope isn't a target scope by any means as the circles just give you a area to place your slug and i like it. :wink:
of coarse the 410 will have a differend rainbow but i have shot it at at 200yds at the range and got bored hittin the 200yd gong.
last year a shot my first ever whitetail at 210yds with this set up.
load is 70grs 3f 777 home cast 455gr slug. :wink:
the scope isn't a target scope by any means as the circles just give you a area to place your slug and i like it. :wink:
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