Good afternoon all, I recently purchased a CVA Accura and being new to the ML world I have a ton of questions. First of all I plan to hunt deer here in Iowa and large game elsewhere, pigs in Texas at my Brother-in-laws and hopefully in the near future a black bear out West. I come from a world of bow hunting and center fire rifles so this is all new to me. What is better, straight power or the pellets? What loads are recommended for the above game? I am also looking at scoping the rifle and what do you all suggest? (At almost 60 years of age, my eyes are not what they once were.) I am told the only dumb question is the one that is never asked so there ya have it. I think I will enjoy the rifle once I get all the little nuances sorted out. thanks in advance for your assistance.
Another new guy with more questions than answers
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Welcome aboard and a fine choice in rifles.
There are a number of powder and bullet choices but 777 will offer you a bit more power by valume than BPor Pirodex. 777 will also be a bit less corrosive to your gun and has a bit less fouling. That being said, Blackhorn 209 is a bit pricey but performs similar to smokeless powder when it comes to ease of cleaning (use Hopes) and more followup shots without swabbing out the bore. Its also non corrosive but it does leave a bit of fouling in the bore that should be removed after a range session. By valume, it will give you a bit more velocity than 777. For all powders, you will get the best accuracy and plenty of power from 80-120 grains. normaly 90-100 grain charges seem to work best, but you will have to find out whats your particular gun prefers.
As far as bullets go, Shockwaves seem to shoot pretty darn well in just about any gun and so do XTP's and GoldDots. For bullet weight I would go with anything 250 grains or heavier. I like 300 grain bullets myself and my gun (accura) really seems to like them as well. My particular gun shoots .45 caliber bullets better than .44 caliber ones. In that gun, you can shoot full bore conicals as well if you prefer real heavy bullets and Thor is a good one, so is a Parker. I always had good luck with GreatPlains bullets as well but have not shot those in my Accura as of yet.
For optics I would go with a quality scope and the selections are limitless. I hunt in alot of timber and brush so I prefer a 1-4x scope and I find that many others do as well but then again, ALOT of folks put 3-9x glass on their guns. Check the muzzleloader laws int he states you plan to hunt in. Some states will not allow optics and some limit their power.
The best way to figure it all out is get some powder, primers and bullets and hit the range.
There are a number of powder and bullet choices but 777 will offer you a bit more power by valume than BPor Pirodex. 777 will also be a bit less corrosive to your gun and has a bit less fouling. That being said, Blackhorn 209 is a bit pricey but performs similar to smokeless powder when it comes to ease of cleaning (use Hopes) and more followup shots without swabbing out the bore. Its also non corrosive but it does leave a bit of fouling in the bore that should be removed after a range session. By valume, it will give you a bit more velocity than 777. For all powders, you will get the best accuracy and plenty of power from 80-120 grains. normaly 90-100 grain charges seem to work best, but you will have to find out whats your particular gun prefers.
As far as bullets go, Shockwaves seem to shoot pretty darn well in just about any gun and so do XTP's and GoldDots. For bullet weight I would go with anything 250 grains or heavier. I like 300 grain bullets myself and my gun (accura) really seems to like them as well. My particular gun shoots .45 caliber bullets better than .44 caliber ones. In that gun, you can shoot full bore conicals as well if you prefer real heavy bullets and Thor is a good one, so is a Parker. I always had good luck with GreatPlains bullets as well but have not shot those in my Accura as of yet.
For optics I would go with a quality scope and the selections are limitless. I hunt in alot of timber and brush so I prefer a 1-4x scope and I find that many others do as well but then again, ALOT of folks put 3-9x glass on their guns. Check the muzzleloader laws int he states you plan to hunt in. Some states will not allow optics and some limit their power.
The best way to figure it all out is get some powder, primers and bullets and hit the range.
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Hello fellow Iowan! I love to shoot and hunt with muzzleloaders. It does take patience and experimenting. I think thats why I love it so much, its so rewarding once things fall into place.
POWDER: Blackhorn 209 is all I use but it is expensive ( about 60 cents per shot ). If you plan to do alot of range shooting, then I would suggest loose Pyrodex or Triple 7. For hunting I would use Blackhorn 209( BH209 ). BH209 doesn't absorb moisture like the other powders do, so it has a much longer shelf life. A charge can be left in your rifle for many days without worrying about it soaking up condensation from your barrel.
PRIMERS: I use CCI 209M ( 4 cents a shot ). BH209 requires a hot primer. Primers made just for muzzleloaders aren't hot enough for BH209 but work well for the other powders.
BULLETS: I use T/C Shockwaves and Hornady SST in 250 grains for target practice ( about 50 cents per shot ), and for hunting, I only use Barnes TMZ or TEZ in 250 grain and 290 grain ( about $1.15 per shot ).
SCOPE: I use the Nikon Omega 3x9x40 with the BDC ( around $250 ). Its a great scope but some people complain that the reticle is too thin to see well under certain conditions but so far, I have had no problems with it.
Good luck, I know you will enjoy your new rifle. Late season muzzleloader starts next monday. I can't wait. So far, I have only watched others in my family shoot the deer ( six in the freezer ), I wanted them to have the first shots but next week is my turn!
POWDER: Blackhorn 209 is all I use but it is expensive ( about 60 cents per shot ). If you plan to do alot of range shooting, then I would suggest loose Pyrodex or Triple 7. For hunting I would use Blackhorn 209( BH209 ). BH209 doesn't absorb moisture like the other powders do, so it has a much longer shelf life. A charge can be left in your rifle for many days without worrying about it soaking up condensation from your barrel.
PRIMERS: I use CCI 209M ( 4 cents a shot ). BH209 requires a hot primer. Primers made just for muzzleloaders aren't hot enough for BH209 but work well for the other powders.
BULLETS: I use T/C Shockwaves and Hornady SST in 250 grains for target practice ( about 50 cents per shot ), and for hunting, I only use Barnes TMZ or TEZ in 250 grain and 290 grain ( about $1.15 per shot ).
SCOPE: I use the Nikon Omega 3x9x40 with the BDC ( around $250 ). Its a great scope but some people complain that the reticle is too thin to see well under certain conditions but so far, I have had no problems with it.
Good luck, I know you will enjoy your new rifle. Late season muzzleloader starts next monday. I can't wait. So far, I have only watched others in my family shoot the deer ( six in the freezer ), I wanted them to have the first shots but next week is my turn!
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Loose powder. You dont need that expensive powder to get excellent groups out of the Accura.
Some of my loads
Powerbelts:
245-295-338 Platinum - 348 - 405 -444. 80-100gr Pyrodex RS with Either Winchester W209 - Winchester 777 Or CCI Inline MZL primers.
Thor conicals - .500" 247 or 250gr HP/ballistic tips: 105-110gr Pyrodex RS and again, either of the 3 primers listed above.
Sabots: 300gr Hornady XTP mag in Harvester mmp-24 sabot with 120gr Pyrodex RS and CCI Inline MZL Primers. Havent tried any other primers with this load.
Its all a learning game and you'll gain knowledge of powders,primes,bullets and especially sabots if thats what you want to use.
Some of my loads
Powerbelts:
245-295-338 Platinum - 348 - 405 -444. 80-100gr Pyrodex RS with Either Winchester W209 - Winchester 777 Or CCI Inline MZL primers.
Thor conicals - .500" 247 or 250gr HP/ballistic tips: 105-110gr Pyrodex RS and again, either of the 3 primers listed above.
Sabots: 300gr Hornady XTP mag in Harvester mmp-24 sabot with 120gr Pyrodex RS and CCI Inline MZL Primers. Havent tried any other primers with this load.
Its all a learning game and you'll gain knowledge of powders,primes,bullets and especially sabots if thats what you want to use.
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First clean the rifle thoroughly to remove all factory preservatives. Finish with a light coating of good gun oil such as Breakfree CLP or RemOil or ??
The breech plug, make sure it is thoroughly clean and dry and that you can see a nice circle of daylight through it. Wrap the threads with a single layer of pink teflon tape. There are many posts on this forum about how to do that and I even go so far as to recommend the Oatey tape for consistency. I generally put just a touch of good grease over the tape on the forward threads (Slick50 ONE grease, Amsoil food grade grease both work well and one tube or tub will last the rest of your life). Some omit the grease when using the tape. Some use only the grease. It somewhat depends upon the fit of your particular plug in your particular rifle.
The breech plug should probably be stored uninstalled until you are preparing to actually shoot, range or hunting. Before loading, patch out any oils from the bore using alcohol dampened patches followed by several dry patches. A shot of clean, dry air through the breech plug is a good final prep before installing.
Powders - I recommend loose powder along with some of Lane's tubes (or other properly sized tubes) to carry premeasured powder charges. I happen to prefer a size that Lane doesn't sell - the 7ml as it holds ~110 grains by volume quite nicely. You can also put a couple of your chosen projectiles in one of those tubes and carry enough loads in a jeans pocket for a hunt. 3 or 4 extra loads for hunting should always be plenty - if not, try another day.
Pellets are convenient but also quite expensive by comparison to most loose powders.
Powder choices - Pyrodex P or RS or Select - cheaper, capable of excellent accuracy - extremely corrosive and one should not delay cleaning EVER after any shots fired on a given day. Bore residue is moderate and often allows a few shots without between shot swabbing. Hygroscopic and one must be very sensitive to moisture and storage method.
True black powders - same properties as Pyrodex but not quite as corrosive. Easily ignited by even weak caps, surefire ignition. Bore residue with some is considerable and between shot swabbing is generally advised. Will recover from moisture contamination if allowed to dry.
TripleSe7en - a bit more expensive, very accurate when fresh, hygroscopic and leaves a hard crud ring after each shot in most barrels. Keep away from moisture. Harder to ignite than true black or Pyrodex but not as hard to ignite as Blackhorn 209. You can use slightly reduced power muzzleloader 209s which many claim reduces the crud ring effect.
Definitely swab between shots.
BlackMag3 or XP, pretty clean burning, not terribly corrosive, but also VERY hygroscopic. When fresh and dry, shoots accurate and leaves only a mild residue in the bore which does not require between shot swabbing (but accuracy might still be enhanced by swabbing).
Blackhorn209 - the newest, cleanest, hottest substitute going. Expensive but dern near worth it :wink: . Meters very well in volume measures, provides great accuracy. Negatives, hardest to ignite - requires a full strength 209 primer such as the Federal 209A or CCI209M. The Win209A, Remington STS, and Cheddite primers will also work. Leaves a hard deposit of carbon residue inside breech plugs after several shots. Clean with Hoppes #9 or similar solvent. Easy cleanup except the breech plug channel generallly requires use of solvent and a drill bit to break up that residue.
I'll leave the APP, Jim Shockey and similar powders out as I have no real experience with them.
Projectile - anything from 80-100 grains of any of the above powders beneath a 200-300 grain quality bullet (lots of posts on bullet selection here) will get the job done. I generally prefer Harvester crushed rib sabots (black) combined with a Speer or Hornady of .451/.452 in 300 grain weight. Lately I've specifically used that sabot with a .451 Speer Uni-Cor soft point over 95 grains by volume of BH209 with excellent results.
Capper - a Tedd Cash style straight line 209 capper will hold quite a number of primers and will work with every rifle I've encountered.
Range rod - you'll want one. Saves wear and tear on the included rod, good ones are much more durable and easier to use at the range. Knight made a good one that has a T-handle. Great for cleaning as well as loading.
Volumetric powder measure - the TC U-view excels.
Lots of cleaning patches, swabbing solution (ask a more specific question about what is best for this after you decide on powder), cleaning solutions (same as swabbing question), pipe cleaners, old toothbrushes, a m/l cleaning brush set to include a brush for cleaning the plug threads (a bottle brush can be used for this), supplies for dealing with the breech plug lubrication, rags for cleaning or wiping down, and probably a lot of other small items you'll find to be handy.
Scope - the most flexible scope mount for your rifle is probably the one sold by EABCO for CVA rifles. Offers lots of slots for Weaver type bases.
For rings I prefer Warne 1" QD rings or TC braded Warnes. Medium height should easily accommodate most scopes. QDs enable easier cleaning of the rifle while at the same time keep the scope away from some of the harsher cleaning agents used.
The scope itself could be any quality scope but it should offer decent eye relief, range of powers that you prefer or a good fixed lower powered scope. Stick to good brands such as Nikon, Leupold, Burris and pay attention to range of adjustment in the scope's specs. Sometimes scopes tend to run out of adjustment before the rifle is zeroed (Leupold is probably more guilty of this than some of the others). You will find some here advocating scopes by lesser known makers - don't overlook them but look for multiple positive comments by different users.
Hope that helps. Consistency in all things is the key to accuracy with a muzzleloader. Have a blast and be safe!
The breech plug, make sure it is thoroughly clean and dry and that you can see a nice circle of daylight through it. Wrap the threads with a single layer of pink teflon tape. There are many posts on this forum about how to do that and I even go so far as to recommend the Oatey tape for consistency. I generally put just a touch of good grease over the tape on the forward threads (Slick50 ONE grease, Amsoil food grade grease both work well and one tube or tub will last the rest of your life). Some omit the grease when using the tape. Some use only the grease. It somewhat depends upon the fit of your particular plug in your particular rifle.
The breech plug should probably be stored uninstalled until you are preparing to actually shoot, range or hunting. Before loading, patch out any oils from the bore using alcohol dampened patches followed by several dry patches. A shot of clean, dry air through the breech plug is a good final prep before installing.
Powders - I recommend loose powder along with some of Lane's tubes (or other properly sized tubes) to carry premeasured powder charges. I happen to prefer a size that Lane doesn't sell - the 7ml as it holds ~110 grains by volume quite nicely. You can also put a couple of your chosen projectiles in one of those tubes and carry enough loads in a jeans pocket for a hunt. 3 or 4 extra loads for hunting should always be plenty - if not, try another day.
Pellets are convenient but also quite expensive by comparison to most loose powders.Powder choices - Pyrodex P or RS or Select - cheaper, capable of excellent accuracy - extremely corrosive and one should not delay cleaning EVER after any shots fired on a given day. Bore residue is moderate and often allows a few shots without between shot swabbing. Hygroscopic and one must be very sensitive to moisture and storage method.
True black powders - same properties as Pyrodex but not quite as corrosive. Easily ignited by even weak caps, surefire ignition. Bore residue with some is considerable and between shot swabbing is generally advised. Will recover from moisture contamination if allowed to dry.
TripleSe7en - a bit more expensive, very accurate when fresh, hygroscopic and leaves a hard crud ring after each shot in most barrels. Keep away from moisture. Harder to ignite than true black or Pyrodex but not as hard to ignite as Blackhorn 209. You can use slightly reduced power muzzleloader 209s which many claim reduces the crud ring effect.
Definitely swab between shots.
BlackMag3 or XP, pretty clean burning, not terribly corrosive, but also VERY hygroscopic. When fresh and dry, shoots accurate and leaves only a mild residue in the bore which does not require between shot swabbing (but accuracy might still be enhanced by swabbing).
Blackhorn209 - the newest, cleanest, hottest substitute going. Expensive but dern near worth it :wink: . Meters very well in volume measures, provides great accuracy. Negatives, hardest to ignite - requires a full strength 209 primer such as the Federal 209A or CCI209M. The Win209A, Remington STS, and Cheddite primers will also work. Leaves a hard deposit of carbon residue inside breech plugs after several shots. Clean with Hoppes #9 or similar solvent. Easy cleanup except the breech plug channel generallly requires use of solvent and a drill bit to break up that residue.
I'll leave the APP, Jim Shockey and similar powders out as I have no real experience with them.
Projectile - anything from 80-100 grains of any of the above powders beneath a 200-300 grain quality bullet (lots of posts on bullet selection here) will get the job done. I generally prefer Harvester crushed rib sabots (black) combined with a Speer or Hornady of .451/.452 in 300 grain weight. Lately I've specifically used that sabot with a .451 Speer Uni-Cor soft point over 95 grains by volume of BH209 with excellent results.
Capper - a Tedd Cash style straight line 209 capper will hold quite a number of primers and will work with every rifle I've encountered.
Range rod - you'll want one. Saves wear and tear on the included rod, good ones are much more durable and easier to use at the range. Knight made a good one that has a T-handle. Great for cleaning as well as loading.
Volumetric powder measure - the TC U-view excels.
Lots of cleaning patches, swabbing solution (ask a more specific question about what is best for this after you decide on powder), cleaning solutions (same as swabbing question), pipe cleaners, old toothbrushes, a m/l cleaning brush set to include a brush for cleaning the plug threads (a bottle brush can be used for this), supplies for dealing with the breech plug lubrication, rags for cleaning or wiping down, and probably a lot of other small items you'll find to be handy.
Scope - the most flexible scope mount for your rifle is probably the one sold by EABCO for CVA rifles. Offers lots of slots for Weaver type bases.
For rings I prefer Warne 1" QD rings or TC braded Warnes. Medium height should easily accommodate most scopes. QDs enable easier cleaning of the rifle while at the same time keep the scope away from some of the harsher cleaning agents used.
The scope itself could be any quality scope but it should offer decent eye relief, range of powers that you prefer or a good fixed lower powered scope. Stick to good brands such as Nikon, Leupold, Burris and pay attention to range of adjustment in the scope's specs. Sometimes scopes tend to run out of adjustment before the rifle is zeroed (Leupold is probably more guilty of this than some of the others). You will find some here advocating scopes by lesser known makers - don't overlook them but look for multiple positive comments by different users.
Hope that helps. Consistency in all things is the key to accuracy with a muzzleloader. Have a blast and be safe!
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Welcome intruder, i started off with pellets thinking it would be better and easier. Its actually just more expensive in my book. I use powder and i am able to experiment better with different volumes to see what the gun likes. I hunt with BH209 and i plink around with 777 or pyrodex. If you go with powder i would buy the T/C u view powder measure ( i just got one at walmart for 7 dollars, i already had one but who can pass that kind of deal up) You will have fun measuring powders out. I buy my bullets in bulk for two reasons, they are cheaper and they are hard to find so i need alot. Hornady 240,250, 300 grain .45 and .44 have done really well for me. I buy the sabot seperate on line. I think i paid something like 13.00 dollars for 50 250 gr and 6.00 dollars for 50 sabots. Compare that to a pack of power belts or some other muzzleloader bullet package. You came to the right place for help, some of these guys know TOO MUCH about muzzle loaders and guns in general. They always leave me in the dust wondering WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT :lol:
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You will want to swab your bore after every shot to get the best accuracy out of your rifle. When I got my first muzzleloader, I never swabbed between shots. I couldn't figure out why my bullets would spray all over the target. It was also almost impossible to load more than four or five shots without cleaning my rifle. The crud buildup was terrible. After much needed advice, I started to swab my bore after every shot, It was incredible! I could load my gun as many times as I wanted at the range and accuracy went way up ( 6 inch groups and larger to 1 inch groups ). I used one wet patch (saturated with T/C no. 13 bore cleaner) followed by one dry patch. It only takes a minute to do and makes a world of difference. You can wet your patch with anything from spit to ? ( many different concoctions available on this forum)
I now use BH209 powder. No swabbing at all between shots!
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hill1970, in your case I would recommend a patch lightly dampened with Windex, alcohol, or spit. Run it down the bore in short strokes, proceeding down the bore a little at a time. Be particularly careful to use short, fast strokes the last 6" as you approach the plug as that will be where you encounter the most buildup. The short quick strokes are to prevent the patched jag from sticking. Follow the damp patch swab with both sides of a dry patch.
Emphasis on "LIGHTLY" dampened. You don't want excess moisture on the swabbing patch as that can create problems of its own. I put some dry patches in a zip lock bag, spray in or add in my swabbing solution, then work it into the patches evenly - then zip the bag. Another bag holds dry patches. That's for range use.
For hunting, you might want to carry a few pre-moistened patches in a small can such as a snuff can or #11 cap container (something small that holds the patches neatly and seals). Or you might just carry several dry patches and use your built-in supply of spit to lightly dampen one, then follow with a dry one.
You might also wish to experiment a little at the range to see where a second shot strikes after NOT swabbing. Sometimes, in the heat of battle , there just isn't time to properly swab and knowing where that second shot impacts is vital. Just be sure to always seat to the same depth as inidicated by a witness mark on your ramrod.
Emphasis on "LIGHTLY" dampened. You don't want excess moisture on the swabbing patch as that can create problems of its own. I put some dry patches in a zip lock bag, spray in or add in my swabbing solution, then work it into the patches evenly - then zip the bag. Another bag holds dry patches. That's for range use.
For hunting, you might want to carry a few pre-moistened patches in a small can such as a snuff can or #11 cap container (something small that holds the patches neatly and seals). Or you might just carry several dry patches and use your built-in supply of spit to lightly dampen one, then follow with a dry one.
You might also wish to experiment a little at the range to see where a second shot strikes after NOT swabbing. Sometimes, in the heat of battle
, there just isn't time to properly swab and knowing where that second shot impacts is vital. Just be sure to always seat to the same depth as inidicated by a witness mark on your ramrod.Similar threads
